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View Poll Results: Who do you support?
Palestine 58 28.02%
Israel 149 71.98%
Voters: 207. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-16-2023, 09:27 AM
 
43,859 posts, read 44,636,592 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Wadd View Post
The War is against Hamas. The "illegal settlements" can be addressed peacefully, but you can't expect Israel to turn the other cheek when 1,300 were massacred. Children kidnapped, women rapped, babies decapitated. There is no road to peace for Hamas after that, not that Hamas wants it anyways. No country on earth would stand for that. The war to eliminate Hamas should not be condemned, it's a war against pure evil.

The people of Gaza are caught in the middle of a war that Hamas started, and Hamas alone are responsible for their deaths, both directly (using them as human shields, blocking evacuation routers) and indirectly (instigating terrorist acts against Israel). Why have you failed to address Hamas usage of it's citizens as human shields. Why is that?
One of the problems is that Hamas was elected by the residents of Gaza to rule over them. Those who actually voted for Hamas are partially guilty for the decisions made by this organization.
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Old 10-16-2023, 09:43 AM
 
742 posts, read 317,554 times
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Originally Posted by Chava61 View Post
One of the problems is that Hamas was elected by the residents of Gaza to rule over them. Those who actually voted for Hamas are partially guilty for the decisions made by this organization.
That is true, but they did this because Fatah was corrupt and less organized, and then Hamas simply drove them out and then killed whatever Fatah representation still remained. Basically, Palestinians didn't have much of a choice. Hamas and Hezbollah propaganda, and yes some of Israeli actions, has made the majority of Palestinians anti-Semitic, but not terrorists. The hate of Israel keeps these terrorists in power.

Anti-semitic's don't deserve death, they deserve universal condemnation but not death, terrorist do. That's why Israel is targeting Hamas (contrary to what others are claiming). The fact that Hamas needs to keep the hate alive in order to stay in power is why they are using residents as human shields.
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Old 10-16-2023, 09:47 AM
 
Location: rural south west UK
5,412 posts, read 3,627,775 times
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I've never heard of Israeli's killing thousands of civilians, or murdering people in their beds or at a pop concert, or beheading babies, only Hamas are guilty of that and that is why the world should condemn them for the monsters that they are.
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Old 10-16-2023, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Perth, Australia
2,958 posts, read 1,343,946 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chava61 View Post
One of the problems is that Hamas was elected by the residents of Gaza to rule over them. Those who actually voted for Hamas are partially guilty for the decisions made by this organization.
Tell me if the people are guilty of the actions of the few because they elected them where does that leave the peoples of the US, France, Germany, UK etc when their elected governments committed mass atrocities? You do know the extremists in the Arab world who think like you do use exactly the same logic to enact atrocities in the west. It's the same hatred, just for a different people and all leads to the same place
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Old 10-16-2023, 10:27 AM
 
7,883 posts, read 10,327,219 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chava61 View Post
One of the problems is that Hamas was elected by the residents of Gaza to rule over them. Those who actually voted for Hamas are partially guilty for the decisions made by this organization.
That election was in 2006 and a large majority of Palestinians most likely can do little about who governs the territory
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Old 10-16-2023, 10:40 AM
 
7,883 posts, read 10,327,219 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
First don’t make enemies. Don’t grab land and make enemies out of people. If the Jews who needed a home had peacefully assimilated with the existing community there would be no Hamas. Too late now. Israel has to make amends, speak the Truth and make Reconciliation. Merely demanding everyone should condemn Hamas otherwise they are anti-semite is an insult to those Jews who truly face prejudice and hate. and that is happening in the US, not in Palestine.
I criticise the illegal settlement building all day long, right now however the Israeli government has to respond to the events of the weekend before last, any country would do the same
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Old 10-16-2023, 10:44 AM
 
742 posts, read 317,554 times
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Originally Posted by Paddy234 View Post
Mate let me tell you as a Catholic i have as much less in common with much of Channel 4's political ideologies as you do but the proof is right there. The Israeli officials didn't even hide it, they made their beliefs and policies very clear. A point well made is a point well made. If Channel 4 made a documentary about the Russian invasion of Ukraine being wrong would you condemn it then? Do you really only watch and listen to media that enforces your own point of view? What if your wrong, how will you ever know, you would never be able to change your mind?

Also it's not just channel 4. This is documented everywhere and has been for years. If you are going to just ignore it and not address it all you are proving is that you wish to stay ignorant to the reality. Tensions have been bubbling for many years and were getting worse.

There are extremists in both sides and it is innocent Israeli's and Palestinians who are getting caught up in it. The extremists in the Israeli side in government department who wish to inflict harm on innocent Palestinians are no different to Hamas.
OK this is my issue, you are bringing in the issue of "illegal settlements" now. I think you are new to this thread AFTER the Hamas terrorist attack. It's a valid issue, but I have to question your timing, as if illegal settlements justify the murder of 1,300 Israeli's, and the kidnapping in the most brutal way possible. There is no moral equivalency here.

Now assuming above is not your intention, let's discuss illegal settlements. I do not watch Youtube videos sorry, but I assume that was the video topic. Yes we can condemn it, but it's a red herring. Israel settles about 2% of West Bank and Golan Heights. 2%!!! Israel has dismantled settlements before in this or that peace offering to Palestinians. Has that improved the situation? No, so what is Israel's incentive to dismantle or stop progress on more? The issue of settlements should have been "settled" in the 1993 Israel-Palestinian Oslo peace accords. Both sides however agreed to defer it until final status talks. Those final status talks never occurred, instead the leaders of Palestine chose violence instead of further peaceful solution discussion - the second intifada. This is a reason why Israel objects to pre-conditions and UN resolutions on the matter.

Governments change, Netanyahu will leave. "Illegal settlements" will come and go. But that is not the answer or even the issue with Israel/Palestinian peace, and it certainly does not justify terrorism.
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Old 10-16-2023, 10:44 AM
 
43,859 posts, read 44,636,592 times
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Originally Posted by irish_bob View Post
That election was in 2006 and a large majority of Palestinians most likely can do little about who governs the territory
Why haven't Gaza residents revolted against Hamas rather blame Israel for their internal troubles?
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Old 10-16-2023, 11:57 AM
 
16,166 posts, read 7,134,658 times
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Originally Posted by irish_bob View Post
I criticise the illegal settlement building all day long, right now however the Israeli government has to respond to the events of the weekend before last, any country would do the same
There are several ways Israel can respond. Cutting of water and food and medical help is cruelty beyond measure. the is not resonate this is mass punishment and revenge. Israel’s actions will reverberate far beyond the middle east.
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Old 10-16-2023, 01:17 PM
 
43,859 posts, read 44,636,592 times
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Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
There are several ways Israel can respond. Cutting of water and food and medical help is cruelty beyond measure. the is not resonate this is mass punishment and revenge. Israel’s actions will reverberate far beyond the middle east.
Well then Egypt should step up as they share a land border with Gaza!!!
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