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View Poll Results: Who do you support?
Palestine 58 28.02%
Israel 149 71.98%
Voters: 207. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-20-2023, 08:48 AM
 
22,847 posts, read 19,468,156 times
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all i can say is if someone chooses to make their bedfellows with the ideology of Hamas, Hezbollah, the gov't of Iran
then they are proclaiming to the world who they are and what they stand for


no one is fooled by the disingenuous (and utter lack of) "care for all people"
they are in for a rocky road and will learn that the hard way.
the natural endpoint of that (and the only endpoint) is self-destruction. they implode.
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Old 10-20-2023, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Tacoma WA, USA
5,708 posts, read 4,998,203 times
Reputation: 4963
Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_bob View Post
The reason the conflict is debated in such a unique way in America is not down to so called “ Jewish control of media “

It’s multi faceted, it suits American geo political interests to have what is a western country in the region, the evangelical Bible literalist vote in America views Israel as central to their religious beliefs , there is also a strong Washington lobby who do represent Israeli interests

I’m not saying America is wrong by the way to back Israel , many European governments do the same, it’s just the nature of the topic is unique in America and not healthy in my view as it’s not really studied in a sophisticated manner but is instead a combination of geo political chess tactics and a hefty dollop of religious influence

The America population often only hear a combination of some evangelical preachers soundbites or a pentagon approved press release, all delivered by one of the networks
This I agree with 100%
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Old 10-20-2023, 11:57 AM
 
2,334 posts, read 1,416,956 times
Reputation: 3561
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
Care to provide examples or is this just more stereotyping? Western media in my experience are decidedly anti-Israel and quick to condemn Israel even without having the facts. We saw this most recently with the strike on the Gaza hospital. News media outlet after news media outlet immediately ran with the Hamas and PLO claims that the deaths were the result of an Israeli airstrike; they were quite unequivocal in that. After Israeli and American intelligence were released to counter that narrative, the media then took a more nuanced position, nothing that there are disputes over who is to blame and that they can't "independently verify" Israel's or Hamas' claims; of course, not being able to independently verify things didn't stop them from immediately blaming Israel initially

Primary problem with your post is that it calls into question people's professionalism on account of religious background when there is zero to substantiate it, or at least gives credence to the position that it's ok to question a journalist's objectivity on account of his or her religion. That's problematic in more than one way. People should be judged based on their actions and how they behave. If a journalist is biased towards Israel on account of his or her religion, then call them out for it individually as being not objective. But what you're positing is something entirely different.
Don't blame the western media. If the events occured in Taiwan, read the local reports; if from the ME, read their news; and so on. Two hostages, an American mother and a daughter, have been released.

The first report of the Baptist hospital by Israeli Air was by the Israeli media themselves. That prompted the Arab leaders to cancel their summit even before Airforce One arrived. Then the story quickly changed.
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Old 10-20-2023, 05:54 PM
 
22,847 posts, read 19,468,156 times
Reputation: 18751
see here's the thing.
lots of people in lots of places, around the globe at various times in history
have lived in abject poverty and difficult oppressive conditions. individually and collectively.
as nations, as families, as groups, as cultures.


and guess what, they don't turn into violent raging bloodthirsty murderers who commit depraved acts of brutality torture slaughter and atrocities. they dont seethe in hatred and they don't teach their children to hate and commit atrocities.

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 10-20-2023 at 06:18 PM..
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Old 10-20-2023, 05:58 PM
 
22,847 posts, read 19,468,156 times
Reputation: 18751
maybe just maybe one of the things we're put on this earth to do is not only put a stop to it,
but also to stop making excuses for it.

and to stop excusing it.
because those who excuse it, and keep excusing it, condone it.

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 10-20-2023 at 07:15 PM..
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Old 10-21-2023, 12:20 AM
 
Location: Bay Area
1,791 posts, read 2,941,627 times
Reputation: 1287
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
It is a travesty. Impossible to listen to the news which makes it seem the only suffering is what Israel endures.
totally pisses me off that the US gives OUR money to israel. that is not remotely okay.
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Old 10-21-2023, 12:36 AM
Status: "Vote the Felon, Not the Melon!" (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: Crooked Pennsylvania
1,396 posts, read 714,850 times
Reputation: 2388
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5thgenSF View Post
totally pisses me off that the US gives OUR money to israel. that is not remotely okay.
You can always mail a check to your buddies in Gaza..
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Old 10-21-2023, 01:42 AM
 
Location: Honolulu/DMV Area/NYC
30,773 posts, read 18,515,875 times
Reputation: 34708
Quote:
Originally Posted by orbiter View Post
Don't blame the western media. If the events occured in Taiwan, read the local reports; if from the ME, read their news; and so on. Two hostages, an American mother and a daughter, have been released.

The first report of the Baptist hospital by Israeli Air was by the Israeli media themselves. That prompted the Arab leaders to cancel their summit even before Airforce One arrived. Then the story quickly changed.
Do you have this report/article/source to support this? I heard the PLO ambassador to the UK making similar claims on Piers Morgan's show, to include that the IDF took responsibility for the "airstrike" before walking things back, but that is a boldface lie:

Quote:
CLAIM: The Israel Defense Forces confirmed it bombed a hospital in Gaza in a social media post written in Arabic.

AP’S ASSESSMENT: False. No such post exists on the IDF’s social media pages and the military’s top Arabic-speaking spokesperson confirmed his office has issued no such statement.

THE FACTS: With many questions still lingering about Tuesday’s deadly blast at a hospital in Gaza, social media users are claiming Israel’s military has taken responsibility.

AP’S ASSESSMENT: False. No such post exists on the IDF’s social media pages and the military’s top Arabic-speaking spokesperson confirmed his office has issued no such statement.
https://apnews.com/article/fact-chec...t-367673389958

What I have seen were early social media and official press releases from Hamas and their supporters claiming that an Israeli airstrike took out the hospital, which western media repeated as factual despite not being in a position to actually confirm. What's really frustrating is that Hamas is known for pushing BS like this, yet their reports were treated as factual, which is pretty telling. Of course, the Palestinian leadership parroted those claims, despite being in a position I'm sure to know that the hospital wasn't even destroyed and that there were far fewer casualties than reported. This was a misinformation campaign pure and simple as far as I've seen.

Seems to be very much fake news and a sign of just how dangerous disinformation tactics are.

Last edited by prospectheightsresident; 10-21-2023 at 02:42 AM..
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Old 10-21-2023, 06:38 AM
 
16,273 posts, read 7,209,320 times
Reputation: 8739
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5thgenSF View Post
totally pisses me off that the US gives OUR money to israel. that is not remotely okay.
It is ironic and tragic that the people of Israel bear the terrible burden of being the central machine of a Middle East geopolitical strategy. So are the Ukrainians. They dare not extricate themselves even if they choose to.
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Old 10-21-2023, 06:46 AM
 
17,665 posts, read 22,444,425 times
Reputation: 30329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Return2FL View Post
They are (were) bargaining chips for a prisoner swap. It's what they've always done. However, this time it is going to end much much worse for the Palestinians. They poked the bull and they are deservedly going to the horns right up their collective arses.
The attack was brutal, the response will be more brutal.
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