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View Poll Results: Who do you support?
Palestine 58 28.02%
Israel 149 71.98%
Voters: 207. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-21-2023, 07:00 AM
 
Location: rural south west UK
5,415 posts, read 3,631,787 times
Reputation: 6659

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Quote:
Originally Posted by City Guy997S View Post
The attack was brutal, the response will be more brutal.
and rightly so.
if someone slaughtered your family and community what would you do?
I'd want every one of those who committed such an act dead .

Last edited by bigpaul; 10-21-2023 at 08:19 AM..
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Old 10-21-2023, 08:05 AM
 
5,975 posts, read 2,915,803 times
Reputation: 7806
The Arab nations know what a group of trouble makers The Palestinians are and want no part of them outher than to use them as Trogen Horse to create chaos .
Try as you may , you can't tame a snake
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Old 10-21-2023, 08:17 AM
 
752 posts, read 323,234 times
Reputation: 1371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowlander67 View Post
Creating an atmosphere of "us" against "them" and pitting one group against another is probably the worst thing to do right now, especially in the West where populations are very mixed. A poll like this is a typical example of that. I fear trouble will flare up again in Europe after it died down a bit lately.

I noticed that opinions about who are the bad guys and who are the good guys are very different on Arab news sites compared to the Western ones. Things are complicated in that area and not as black and white as presented in the Western media.

The Palestinians are not really helped by the West or the Arab nations and are hated by a lot of Israelis. Not a good position to be in.

Perhaps if the West and the Arab nations invested more in these Palestinian areas and made them more livable, there would be less violence. Now they are, economically and in all sorts of other ways, totally dependent on Israel which is not a good thing for them.
I can't agree with any of what you wrote. Palestinians are indeed helped by the west. 1994 to 2020 they received some $40 BILLION in aid. The US is actually the largest single contributor, with contributions primarily to the UNRWA (UN aid camps in Gaza and West Bank). There doesn't seem much to show for it, but they get plenty of aid. Biden just promised another $100 million in aid to Gaza the other day. Sadly, it seems much of the aid is misappropriated by the terrorist leaders of Palestine.

I also strongly disagree with the portrayal in western media vs. Arab news sites. The US is strongly pro-Israel of course, that is our ally in the Middle East. But you have a strong underlying current of pro-Palestinian reporting (which in many ways aligns with a certain liberal agenda), with even some "progressive" political leaders going on record as supporting Palestine, particularly in the current war. One example of this was clearly brought up in this thread - the bombing of the hospital area which was originally incorrectly attributed to Israel, based almost totally on Hamas reporting. On the contrary, the Arab world in most countries do not have a free press. And are happy to report a one-sided view of what it's readers want to read, or what the government tells them to print.
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Old 10-21-2023, 08:32 AM
 
16,174 posts, read 7,149,533 times
Reputation: 8647
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpaul View Post
and rightly so.
if someone slaughtered your family and community what would you do?
I'd want every one of those who committed such an act dead .
Revenge only blackens your own self. Can you guarantee that that you will only kill the guilty and not harm another soul? No you cant and now you too have blood on your hands. Eye for an eye is a an evil doctrine.
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Old 10-21-2023, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Florida
14,977 posts, read 9,895,330 times
Reputation: 12094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowlander67 View Post
Creating an atmosphere of "us" against "them" and pitting one group against another is probably the worst thing to do right now, especially in the West where populations are very mixed. A poll like this is a typical example of that. I fear trouble will flare up again in Europe after it died down a bit lately.

I noticed that opinions about who are the bad guys and who are the good guys are very different on Arab news sites compared to the Western ones. Things are complicated in that area and not as black and white as presented in the Western media.

The Palestinians are not really helped by the West or the Arab nations and are hated by a lot of Israelis. Not a good position to be in.

Perhaps if the West and the Arab nations invested more in these Palestinian areas and made them more livable, there would be less violence. Now they are, economically and in all sorts of other ways, totally dependent on Israel which is not a good thing for them.
No one or no nation, can 'bring' a people out of their violence, hate and dependency, by giving them more. That's just lunacy. In fact the Palestinians are on welfare... an international form of welfare. The old adage of giving a man a fish or teaching them to fish is applicable. However if given the choice of a nice peaceful home or a new AK and Katyusha rocket... they HAVE consistently chose the latter.

Only personal commitments and endeavors can achieve such ends.
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Old 10-21-2023, 09:22 AM
 
Location: rural south west UK
5,415 posts, read 3,631,787 times
Reputation: 6659
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
Revenge only blackens your own self. Can you guarantee that that you will only kill the guilty and not harm another soul? No you cant and now you too have blood on your hands. Eye for an eye is a an evil doctrine.
so you think Israel should not go after the killers of their kinfolk is that what your saying?
the Palestinians voted for Hamas and have blood on their hands, I think most of them wanted Hamas to kill Jews and they are just as guilty as those that did the killing.
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Old 10-21-2023, 09:27 AM
 
752 posts, read 323,234 times
Reputation: 1371
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
Revenge only blackens your own self. Can you guarantee that that you will only kill the guilty and not harm another soul? No you cant and now you too have blood on your hands. Eye for an eye is a an evil doctrine.
On the other hand, you have been suggesting and justifying revenge against Israel through this entire thread. Now you seem to try to redefine yourself from your militant words to one of pacifism. It's too late, you can go back a few pages and see your true intent.

Nevertheless, I will leave you with these words from C.S. Lewis (who experienced the horrors of the first world war):
"We have discovered that the scheme of 'outlawing war' has made war more like an outlaw without making it less frequent and that to banish the knight does not alleviate the suffering of the peasant."
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Old 10-21-2023, 09:31 AM
 
16,174 posts, read 7,149,533 times
Reputation: 8647
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpaul View Post
so you think Israel should not go after the killers of their kinfolk is that what your saying?
the Palestinians voted for Hamas and have blood on their hands, I think most of them wanted Hamas to kill Jews and they are just as guilty as those that did the killing.
Maybe most of them only want to live in safety and not be killed.
If what Isreal wants is to go after those who inflicted violence to its citizens, it should. What it is doing is bombing the innocent men, women, and children as if they are not human beings, and depriving them of food, water, and medical care.
It should also stop illegal expansion and settlements.
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Old 10-21-2023, 09:39 AM
 
752 posts, read 323,234 times
Reputation: 1371
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
Maybe most of them only want to live in safety and not be killed.
If what Isreal wants is to go after those who inflicted violence to its citizens, it should. What it is doing is bombing the innocent men, women, and children as if they are not human beings, and depriving them of food, water, and medical care.
It should also stop illegal expansion and settlements.
This again. Why don't you set some app that just posts your same message over and over. Save you some time.
Once again:
  • Israel is going after a foe that uses it's citizens as human shields.
  • If Israel wanted to kill everyone in Gaza, they can do that very easily. They aren't. They are taking the harder road via the pending ground invasion which will certainly cause heavy IDF casualties.
  • Gaza shares a border with Egypt. Israel does not control that border crossing. If I understand it, aid is starting to flow through.
  • Israel has stoped expansion and shut down settlements in the past to the extent of bulldozing Israeli settlements. That did not stop terrorists attacks in the least.
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Old 10-21-2023, 10:33 AM
 
22,733 posts, read 19,389,030 times
Reputation: 18581
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
Revenge only blackens your own self. Can you guarantee that that you will only kill the guilty and not harm another soul? No you cant and now you too have blood on your hands. Eye for an eye is a an evil doctrine.
when Hitler and the Nazi regime was taken out, is that "revenge"?
was the world stage "blackened" when Hitler and the Nazis were taken out?

that is what you are saying. in the here and now.
that is what you advocate. that is what you support.

or were many lives saved and much slaughter and atrocities stopped, when Hitler and the Nazi regime were taken out?
or are you OK with 12 million people being slaughtered in the Holocaust? because that is the view you consistently keep presenting, you keep defending the perpetrators of atrocities. and you keep speaking out against those trying to stop the atrocities, by taking out Hamas.

your consistent doubling down and support for those committing atrocities shows how blinded and twisted that thinking is.

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 10-21-2023 at 10:43 AM..
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