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View Poll Results: Who do you support?
Palestine 58 28.02%
Israel 149 71.98%
Voters: 207. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-20-2023, 02:07 PM
 
752 posts, read 323,234 times
Reputation: 1371

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Quote:
Originally Posted by docyabut View Post
Israel says new videos show Hamas hostages and a tunnel at Al-Shifa Hospital


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/i...aza-rcna125948
That video is damning, guy comes in with a treatable wound and never leaves alive. Why that hospital in particular if not it being Hamas central? I wouldn't be surprised if the Palestinian medical doctors there, all employees of the Hamas Health Ministry, killed them rather then treating them. Clearly they lied about everything else and aren't concerned about weapons stacked behind MR machines.
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Old 11-21-2023, 03:16 AM
 
513 posts, read 476,628 times
Reputation: 344
Sorry for posting so much I'll stop
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Old 01-20-2024, 05:07 PM
 
3,398 posts, read 1,780,936 times
Reputation: 6381
Stop this armchair support. Whoever wins this conflict with might get to write the history and ownership of the land. War is not won by giving into the whiners.
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Old 02-17-2024, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Orange County, CA USA
788 posts, read 523,077 times
Reputation: 1199
Seems to me that Arabs may have a legit beef with Israel for building settlements on disputed land. The world court has repeatedly stated that Israel has no right to move into locations, kick out the current residents, and build those settlements. Both sides have their views as to who owns the land going back to the Arab-Israeli War of 1948. Granted, Hamas is a twisted, brutal entity that should be smacked down hard for their war crimes against women, but in the big picture, do they have a point? Should there be, or does one exist, a world organization to make a decision and get enforcement? The world court appears to be pretty much a joke, right? What is the US telling Israel about this, and does Israel listen and take action, or just brush it off and ask for another hundred million bucks to fight off the evil Arabs? This is what happens when no one is in charge.
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Old 02-17-2024, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Honolulu/DMV Area/NYC
30,745 posts, read 18,423,627 times
Reputation: 34629
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW R1100 View Post
Seems to me that Arabs may have a legit beef with Israel for building settlements on disputed land. The world court has repeatedly stated that Israel has no right to move into locations, kick out the current residents, and build those settlements. Both sides have their views as to who owns the land going back to the Arab-Israeli War of 1948. Granted, Hamas is a twisted, brutal entity that should be smacked down hard for their war crimes against women, but in the big picture, do they have a point? Should there be, or does one exist, a world organization to make a decision and get enforcement? The world court appears to be pretty much a joke, right? What is the US telling Israel about this, and does Israel listen and take action, or just brush it off and ask for another hundred million bucks to fight off the evil Arabs? This is what happens when no one is in charge.
Appreciate your post. From my perspective, however, mention of the world court in this context is irrelevant as Israel is not a member of the world court and the world court, thus, doesn't have jurisdiction over Israel. Referencing the world court here is akin to the hypothetical assertion that the U.S. Supreme Court issued an opinion that declared that Australia was illegally settled. Such a ruling would have zero legal effect and significance as the U.S. Court would have zero authority over Australia, just like the "world court" has zero authority over Israel.

Moving on, Israel is building on land whose ownership is disputed. But let's be clear here: Israel would be smaller than it is today had numerous Arab states not attempted to commit multiple genocidal campaigns following her independence. Israel has offered the PLO 97% of the West Bank and all of Gaza for a state, offers that have been rebuffed by the PLO and Hamas multiple times. Are Islamists/Palestinians upset with this? I don't doubt it. But I ask what is their reasonable alternative? With Hamas declaring that it will never recognize Israel and proclaiming that a Palestinian state will exist from the Red Sea to the Jordan River (which was never the case and would require Israel to cease to exist as we know it), what do people expect Israel to do?

The world is rife with examples of perceived wrongdoing that led to various border chances, to include Russia's annexation of Crimea, etc. But Ukraine didn't choose to engage in some prolonged, multi-generational battle with Russia over the issue. Reasonable people would have sued for peace, but Palestinians and their leadership have shown themselves to be far from reasonable on this issue. There will be no one side getting everything. Some give and take is a given, but Palestinians want everything or nothing, which is absurd and won't ever happen.

Surrounded by countries that have shown time and time again that they aren't capable of peaceful coexistence with the Jewish State, returning Israel to its pre-1967 borders would require Israel to build defensive lines within its own territory, effectively letting terrorists win in further entrenching itself. From where I stand, having some buffer extend into the side of the losers
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Old 02-17-2024, 08:18 PM
 
Location: New York Area
35,384 posts, read 17,279,299 times
Reputation: 30524
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW R1100 View Post
Seems to me that Arabs may have a legit beef with Israel for building settlements on disputed land. The world court has repeatedly stated that Israel has no right to move into locations, kick out the current residents, and build those settlements. Both sides have their views as to who owns the land going back to the Arab-Israeli War of 1948. Granted, Hamas is a twisted, brutal entity that should be smacked down hard for their war crimes against women, but in the big picture, do they have a point? Should there be, or does one exist, a world organization to make a decision and get enforcement? The world court appears to be pretty much a joke, right? What is the US telling Israel about this, and does Israel listen and take action, or just brush it off and ask for another hundred million bucks to fight off the evil Arabs? This is what happens when no one is in charge.
This has to be put in historical context. Over the whole world, nation-states were replacing historical empires, and unclaimed land was being taken. People have migrated for eons, spurred by the pull of opportunity and the push of desperation.

One of the examples of these was the Zionist movement of the late 1800s. For a while this was a fringe movement. The then-feeble Zionist originated by Theodore Herzl, then an obscure newsman and pamphleteer. The Kisinev Pogrom of April 1903 poured gasoline on that fire. While the expression that the purpose of Zionism was to give “A Land without a People for a People without a Land” was an overstatement, it is true that in all expansions of Europeans prior to Zionism, the more advanced Europeans prevailed over relatively primitive people in the Americas, Australia, New Zealand and the Pacific Islands. The Europeans also generally prevailed in Africa and Asia. There was never an objection until, magically, the Jews were the protagonists, beneficiaries and avoiders of extirpation or extermination. Then, it suddenly became necessary to ensure that "nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine" (from the Balfour Declaration). The "World Court" drops out of the sky, enforcing new rules when the Jewish people needed succor. Have we heard a peep from the World Court about Jammu and Kashmir? Or course not. Ditto China's land grab of Tibet, USSR's of the Kurile Island, Russia over Ukraine. The list goes on.

In other words, nationalism becomes objectionable when it was the Jewish people that assert it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
Reasonable people would have sued for peace, but Palestinians and their leadership have shown themselves to be far from reasonable on this issue. There will be no one side getting everything. Some give and take is a given, but Palestinians want everything or nothing, which is absurd and won't ever happen.
Exactly. Why is there no pressure on Hamas for a "cease-fire" or to "stop the war?" Easy, because Hamas doesn't care what leftist newspapers in the U.S. say.
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Old 02-19-2024, 09:37 AM
 
Location: Orange County, CA USA
788 posts, read 523,077 times
Reputation: 1199
Good to see a discussion.
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Old 02-19-2024, 04:05 PM
 
Location: New York Area
35,384 posts, read 17,279,299 times
Reputation: 30524
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW R1100 View Post
Good to see a discussion.
I responded to your post. Do you have any substantive response to mine?
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Old 02-23-2024, 05:57 AM
 
Location: Florida
14,977 posts, read 9,893,506 times
Reputation: 12094
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Diego View Post
¡ Viva Palestina !
Well I see the citizens of Palestine have protested/rioted against Hamas in Rafah. Apparently it's also been reported Hamas fired on the crowd.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_T3uW_o6ro
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Old 02-23-2024, 09:55 AM
 
752 posts, read 323,234 times
Reputation: 1371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn View Post
Well I see the citizens of Palestine have protested/rioted against Hamas in Rafah. Apparently it's also been reported Hamas fired on the crowd.

The member you are responding to is gone it seems. He didn't have much to contribute except for "Viva Palestina". I am not sure if he knew himself what that meant or just wanted to say some glib comment, but Viva Palestina is a British based organization that has been accused of directly supporting the Hamas terrorist organization (not Palestine, but Hamas).
That may explain why he is no longer with us.
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