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Old 07-04-2021, 12:30 PM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
27,571 posts, read 28,673,621 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAandATL View Post
It's not that having a car itself is conservative, and outside of NYC, DC, and maybe Chicago most US cities do not have good public transportation compared to the other world cities of equal size. The culture of public transportation only being for the poor who cannot afford a car, and not wanting to pay taxes for it is what's conservative.
I don’t think driving a car is necessarily a conservative issue. It is more of a socioeconomic one. Liberals drive cars too, but you see them increasingly driving electric vehicles like a Tesla. That is the latest trend.

To most of the world, I think the most conservative feature about America is the gun culture and maybe country music. And that actually is widespread in rural areas.
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Old 07-04-2021, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
18,504 posts, read 15,560,052 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
I wonder if geography is a big reason why the United States seems to be more conservative than other Anglosphere countries. For example, the United States is pretty rural and has vast expanses of farmland in places like the Midwest and the south. Canada and Australia are also geographically large countries, but the great bulk of their land masses are not considered suitable for human habitation. Almost all of their populations are concentrated in small, narrow regions of the countries.

If Canada and Australia had huge breadbasket regions like the United States, then would they also be as conservative as the United States?
Canada does have a " bread basket " region. We are the world's fifth largest producer of wheat, right after the US being fourth.

We are also the world's largest producer of mustard, flax, lentils, and canola.

It's a very large area.

Yes, it tends to be more conservative, but usually a " live and let live " type of conservatism.
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Old 07-04-2021, 02:23 PM
 
8,373 posts, read 4,395,120 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAandATL View Post
It's not that having a car itself is conservative, and outside of NYC, DC, and maybe Chicago most US cities do not have good public transportation compared to the other world cities of equal size. The culture of public transportation only being for the poor who cannot afford a car, and not wanting to pay taxes for it is what's conservative.

As mentioned, I live in Boston, which has outstanding public transportation. How many cities outside the US with population comparable to Boston, ie, less than 700,000, have had a subway since the 1890s, that covers pretty much all of the city, and a huge network of commuter rail that covers the suburbs? The culture of public transportation being only for the poor in the US in 2021 is, sorry, a complete nonsense. Maybe in the 1950s-1970s, but public transportation has not been only for the poor in the US in a very, very long time (if, in fact, ever). Taxes in the US are quite high, and the public transportation is widespread, even in small cities. There is a lack of public transportation only in rural areas, and certain very upscale suburbs that have never needed it.



I am not poor (ie, have not been poor in a very long time), and this is the list of the US cities where I have used public transportation without any difficulty in the past 20 years: NYC, several small cities in Upstate NY (Albany, NY etc.), Boston, Worcester (MA), Framingham (MA) - can you even find it on the map? :-), Pittsburgh (PA), DC, New Orleans, San Antonio (TX), Los Angeles, San Francisco, Anchorage (AK), Honolulu, Seattle, Denver, Albuquerque (NM), Santa Fe (NM). In Honolulu, you can buy a monthly pass for the city bus, and use it to unlimited extent for the whole island of Oahu.
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Old 07-04-2021, 02:28 PM
 
6,563 posts, read 12,054,379 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
I don’t think driving a car is necessarily a conservative issue. It is more of a socioeconomic one. Liberals drive cars too, but you see them increasingly driving electric vehicles like a Tesla. That is the latest trend.

To most of the world, I think the most conservative feature about America is the gun culture and maybe country music. And that actually is widespread in rural areas.
Also Christianity but with a legalistic approach. Not so much about having a personal relationship with Jesus (I'm all for that personally, dgmw) but more about following a bunch of rules and rituals such as having to gather in church in person and in extreme cases who you vote for. With the abortion issue, it's like they turn a blind eye to everything else as long as they are pro-life/anti-abortion. I had one of those "Karens" on Facebook basically imply that I'm unsaved if I didn't vote for Trump since I support the killing of babies. Everything is extremely black and white with them, no grey areas.

With Trump's 'Murica they actually wanted more government intervention to create a cult of personality. They wanted to make it an arrestable offense to kneel during the anthem. Speaking of which patriotism is also one of the biggest conservative features, along with capitalism.
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Old 07-04-2021, 02:31 PM
 
8,373 posts, read 4,395,120 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
I don’t think driving a car is necessarily a conservative issue. It is more of a socioeconomic one. Liberals drive cars too, but you see them increasingly driving electric vehicles like a Tesla. That is the latest trend.

To most of the world, I think the most conservative feature about America is the gun culture and maybe country music. And that actually is widespread in rural areas.



Car driving is a practical issue, not really a socioeconomic one (since you can buy used cars cheaply in the US, ie, normally you can buy them cheaply, when there isn't this much inflation). Country music hasn't been conservative in a long time either, the majority of it. The whole alt-country is rather liberal, and Steve Earle is way liberal :-). I have a feeling the world might know that (since they can find it online).
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Old 07-04-2021, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
18,504 posts, read 15,560,052 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielsa1775 View Post
I can't see this thread lasting long.

I have no idea what conservative means these days. For instance the UK had mass public transportation networks long before cars came along, trains and underground rail networks are the traditional means of mass transport, yet these days they are seen as an example left leaning progressiveness.

I have no doubt the people who buldozed most of Australia's tram networks in the 1960's thought themselves as progressives, as they were replacing the old with something new and different.

I am a stay at home dad, and fullfill a very traditional role a wife normal would yet consider myself conservative, mostly because I support free enterprise, and small government.
There is a certain brand of conservatism in the US that really doesn't apply to Canada, and most likely Australia.

Issues like transit, at least in Canada, aren't seen as partisan for the most part.
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Old 07-04-2021, 02:38 PM
 
6,563 posts, read 12,054,379 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elnrgby View Post
As mentioned, I live in Boston, which has outstanding public transportation. How many cities outside the US with population comparable to Boston, ie, less than 700,000, have had a subway since the 1890s, that covers pretty much all of the city, and a huge network of commuter rail that covers the suburbs? The culture of public transportation being only for the poor in the US in 2021 is, sorry, a complete nonsense. Maybe in the 1950s-1970s, but public transportation has not been only for the poor in the US in a very, very long time (if, in fact, ever). Taxes in the US are quite high, and the public transportation is widespread, even in small cities. There is a lack of public transportation only in rural areas, and certain very upscale suburbs that have never needed it.



I am not poor (ie, have not been poor in a very long time), and this is the list of the US cities where I have used public transportation without any difficulty in the past 20 years: NYC, several small cities in Upstate NY (Albany, NY etc.), Boston, Worcester (MA), Framingham (MA) - can you even find it on the map? :-), Pittsburgh (PA), DC, New Orleans, San Antonio (TX), Los Angeles, San Francisco, Anchorage (AK), Honolulu, Seattle, Denver, Albuquerque (NM), Santa Fe (NM). In Honolulu, you can buy a monthly pass for the city bus, and use it to unlimited extent for the whole island of Oahu.
Ok, Boston and also Philly are in the top 5 for US cities. I'm sure there are plenty of cities in Europe and Asia with that population or smaller with subway systems maybe not that old, but as at least as extensive as Boston. Anyhow, my point is every city I lived in it's difficult and inconvenient to use public transportation. It's a known fact that in general US cities are lacking compared to European and Asian cities and the American way of life is needing 2 things you don't need in most developed nations: a car to get around and a gun for protection.
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Old 07-04-2021, 02:45 PM
 
8,373 posts, read 4,395,120 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAandATL View Post
Also Christianity but with a legalistic approach. Not so much about having a personal relationship with Jesus (I'm all for that personally, dgmw) but more about following a bunch of rules and rituals such as having to gather in church in person and in extreme cases who you vote for. With the abortion issue, it's like they turn a blind eye to everything else as long as they are pro-life/anti-abortion. I had one of those "Karens" on Facebook basically imply that I'm unsaved if I didn't vote for Trump since I support the killing of babies. Everything is extremely black and white with them, no grey areas.

With Trump's 'Murica they actually wanted more government intervention to create a cult of personality. They wanted to make it an arrestable offense to kneel during the anthem. Speaking of which patriotism is also one of the biggest conservative features, along with capitalism.



Okay, religion in the US is a conservative matter, I'll give you that. Guns, to some extent too (although social liberals who support them aren't vanishingly rare, since the risk of crime is an incontrovertible fact). Patriotism plus/minus (liberals are loyal to the US too, just express their loyalty differently). Capitalism is also not conservative, ie, market economy is simply the only one that works. Sweden is very capitaliat, but is not known as being conservative (although it is not in the Anglosphere, but just illustrates a strongly capitalist orientation combined with social liberality, an outlook that you regularly see in a majority of well educated Americans).
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Old 07-04-2021, 02:51 PM
 
8,373 posts, read 4,395,120 times
Reputation: 12039
Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAandATL View Post
Ok, Boston and also Philly are in the top 5 for US cities. I'm sure there are plenty of cities in Europe and Asia with that population or smaller with subway systems maybe not that old, but as at least as extensive as Boston. Anyhow, my point is every city I lived in it's difficult and inconvenient to use public transportation. It's a known fact that in general US cities are lacking compared to European and Asian cities and the American way of life is needing 2 things you don't need in most developed nations: a car to get around and a gun for protection.

It is not a fact known to me, and I have been living in the US for 37.5 years (out of my total 61 years). I am not poor, and I live in a large US city, where I do not own either a car or a gun :-). Boston is very safe, though many other US cities could use a much stronger police force right now to decrease the need for any civilian guns. It is not a matter of conservativism, but a matter of high crime.
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Old 07-04-2021, 03:46 PM
 
14,993 posts, read 23,896,013 times
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It's amazing that so many from another country, particularly European's, don't understand the underlying basic "experiment" of the United States. It's still unique among countries - a constitution based on, not what the government can do, but what the government CAN'T do.

This is mistaken for conservatism. But it really isn't. It's the focus on individual, rather than collective, freedoms. Individual liberty. For other countries that means gun control, government mandates, increased safety nets, censorship on what you can say or do, social services, employee protections. Now, it's always a sliding scale because the US has these controls as well, but it's just...less, in some cases much less. Other democracies don't get this - "you mean Nazi's are allowed to hold a parade?", "you mean you are allowed to own semi-automatic weapons". Many of the principles of the Bill or Rights is unfathomable to them. The reason is because whenever you introduce government controls, you lose some liberty. A little bit.

But it's not conservative, it's simply the founding principles of this nation. It's actually in some sense more liberal and progressive - a liberal gun control policy, a liberal freedom of speach policy, etc.
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