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easthome had made an assertion that Latinos would be considered "white" in most of the world. That's what this thread tangent is about.
So we were presented a picture of some actual Latinos in the US and asked if Europeans would consider those people "white."
Okay, so the answer is "no." It doesn't make any difference what Europeans guessed they might be, the fact is that the people pictured are Latinos--that's what they consider themselves--and would not be considered "white" by Europeans.
Yeah, we know that the "Latino" is an ethnic term, not a racial one, but from what I see in the Americas is that the numerical majority of people who call themselves "Latino" by ethnicity also have too much non-white admixture to be considered "white" among Europeans.
The answer isn't 'no' though is it? Jennifer Lopez is labelled 'Latino' over there but she is simply white over here no?
easthome had made an assertion that Latinos would be considered "white" in most of the world. That's what this thread tangent is about.
So we were presented a picture of some actual Latinos in the US and asked if Europeans would consider those people "white."
Okay, so the answer is "no." It doesn't make any difference what Europeans guessed they might be, the fact is that the people pictured are Latinos--that's what they consider themselves--and would not be considered "white" by Europeans.
Yeah, we know that the "Latino" is an ethnic term, not a racial one, but from what I see in the Americas is that the numerical majority of people who call themselves "Latino" by ethnicity also have too much non-white admixture to be considered "white" among Europeans.
Exactly.
As I said upthread, many/most Latinos in the US are Mestizo. They are mixed-race (Spanish and indigenous descent). In fact, there are many who are probably of 100% Indigenous descent (which is apparent) -- but they speak Spanish (because, obviously, Spain colonized Mexico/Central America). It's the equivalent of a someone who's 100% Black racially but speaks only French, or someone who's 100% ethnic Chinese but speaks with a thick Scottish accent.
More important, though, most Latinos in the US don't consider themselves white . Not at all. That's really what matters. And most Europeans, even in Southern Europe, probably wouldn't consider them white, either.
The answer isn't 'no' though is it? Jennifer Lopez is labelled 'Latino' over there but she is simply white over here no?
Perhaps because Jennifer Lopez LOOKS white and might be of mostly white ancestry. Both her parents are from Puerto Rico, not Mexico or Central America. So, she might have little or no indigenous or Black ancestry.
From Wikipedia:
"Studies have shown that the racial ancestry mixture of the average Puerto Rican (regardless of racial self-identity) is about 64% European, 21% African, and 15% Native Taino, with European ancestry strongest on the west side of the island and West African ancestry strongest on the east side..."
Except that she is Indigenous American (Native American), very proudly so and very insistently so. She would be offended that you presumed she was white.
And she doesn't particularly look white. If I didn't guess Native American, I'd have guessed an Asian admixture.
Nor would I guess Jennifer Lopez or Eva Langoria to be white, and certainly not Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, but rather Latino with less Native American admixture.
But maybe that's a matter of being commonly around enough people with various levels of non-white admixtures to recognize differences.
Last edited by Ralph_Kirk; 08-26-2021 at 10:40 AM..
So these guys would be considered White in London, Paris, Rome? Not even in Spain (where I've lived) would they have been considered anything but indigenous/Latino/other.
I doubt that anybody anywhere would consider those guys as whites. It's very obvious from their physical builds from head to toe and the shapes of their facial and jaw structures and sets of their eyes and mouthes that they're Mestizos. You could cover them entirely in green paint and it would still be obvious that they're Mestizos.
She is an Ojibwe born in Alberta, Canada, and she looks every inch an Ojibwe. All the indigenous tribes in North America have identifying features that set them apart from each other.
She is an Ojibwe born in Alberta, Canada, and she looks every inch an Ojibwe. All the indigenous tribes in North America have identifying features that set them apart from each other.
.
Here in Quebec (where I suppose people might be less attuned than on the Canadian Prairies to who is Indigenous and who isn't) someone who looks like her would definitely be considered "white". (Assuming one doesn't know anything else about her.)
At a minimum, for people in Quebec to assume you're Indigenous simply based on appearance, one would look something like this:
Here in Quebec (where I suppose people might be less attuned than on the Canadian Prairies to who is Indigenous and who isn't) someone who looks like her would definitely be considered "white". (Assuming one doesn't know anything else about her.)
Seriously? Cara Gee really looks Caucasian to you? Which part of western Europe would you figure she'd hail from?
As I said upthread, many/most Latinos in the US are Mestizo. They are mixed-race (Spanish and indigenous descent). In fact, there are many who are probably of 100% Indigenous descent (which is apparent) -- but they speak Spanish (because, obviously, Spain colonized Mexico/Central America). It's the equivalent of a someone who's 100% Black racially but speaks only French, or someone who's 100% ethnic Chinese but speaks with a thick Scottish accent.
More important, though, most Latinos in the US don't consider themselves white . Not at all. That's really what matters. And most Europeans, even in Southern Europe, probably wouldn't consider them white, either.
I definitely can't disagree that most US Latinos don't consider themselves white, but I think that's just them adapting to the US' ethno-racial universe.
There definitely are lots of people in a country like Spain who look like AOC, Lopez and Longoria, and they're not necessarily immigrants from Latin America or their children. They are often multi-generational Spanish.
I definitely think Europeans would consider them white, unless we're talking about alt-right groups and sympathizers who don't even consider Poles and other Slavs as "white".
Obviously it's not nearly as obsessive as in the US , but the notion of whiteness does exist in Europe, and it does generally apply to all populations native to the continent. Except the Roms maybe.
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, but the notion of whiteness does exist in Europe, and it does generally apply to all populations native to the continent. Except the Roms maybe.
