Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > World
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: Which of these are part of the West?
Anglo America: Canada and USA 67 90.54%
Australia and New Zealand 58 78.38%
Europe – Eastern Europe and the Balkans (excl. former USSR) 26 35.14%
Europe – Northern Europe, incl. Germany and the United Kingdom 66 89.19%
Europe – Southern Europe, incl. France, Greece, Italy, and Space 62 83.78%
Europe – Former Soviet Union, incl. Russia and Ukraine 6 8.11%
Israel 25 33.78%
Japan 10 13.51%
Latin America - Argentina, Chile, Paraguay, and Uruguay 25 33.78%
Latin America – Brazil 23 31.08%
Latin America – Colombia, Ecuador, Peru, Venezuela 23 31.08%
Latin America – Mexico, Central America, and Spanish Caribbean 23 31.08%
Philippines 2 2.70%
South Africa 8 10.81%
Turkey 3 4.05%
Others not listed here (specify in comments) 5 6.76%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 74. You may not vote on this poll

Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-12-2022, 10:39 AM
 
Location: In the heights
37,018 posts, read 39,070,364 times
Reputation: 21046

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
They have the same roots but Judaism has modernised like Christianity while Islam has not. The Jewish community is thoroughly integrated in modern Europe and America (a bit less so in Europe but mostly it's fine), the Islamic community is not.

The West = Judeo-Christian traditions, democratic/liberal values, and advanced economy. Israel checks all three boxes.

I feel like if we're going to start going by modernization, then there's a pretty good chunk of East Asia that then conceivably also becomes part of the West as well and more so than some of the parts of what one might consider the West proper. Christianity and Islam are also in some ways a lot closer than Judaism is to either.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-12-2022, 02:45 PM
 
17 posts, read 7,404 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
Unless one is going to call all of Europe "the West," I'm not sure if that argument convinces me personally. The bulk of Israel's European ancestry seems to be from Eastern Europe from what I gather.

Then you have pieces like this (I haven't been able to fact check myself, but I'll take this guy's word for things):



https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-e...520-story.html

When you look at the ethnicity/origin table from Wikipedia, the numbers presented in the LA Times opinion piece make sense: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogr...ligious_groups

Quite a sizable percentage of Israeli Jews are from Eastern Europe, Africa, Asian, and Middle Eastern/Arab countries.

Then you have to factor in the fact that 20%+ of Israel's population is Arab, with the bulk of those being Muslim.

It is with this information that I am hesitant to call Israel "the West." But that's me.
Race is a bunch of nonsense, unscientific garbage, some Americans love to obsessed about it.

Western is a political thing, not a racial thing.

And if we go by "Race" which is once again, nothing scientific about it, then the US is hardly western being that most Americans are mixed race.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2022, 04:42 PM
 
Location: In the heights
37,018 posts, read 39,070,364 times
Reputation: 21046
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
Unless one is going to call all of Europe "the West," I'm not sure if that argument convinces me personally. The bulk of Israel's European ancestry seems to be from Eastern Europe from what I gather.

Then you have pieces like this (I haven't been able to fact check myself, but I'll take this guy's word for things):



https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-e...520-story.html

When you look at the ethnicity/origin table from Wikipedia, the numbers presented in the LA Times opinion piece make sense: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogr...ligious_groups

Quite a sizable percentage of Israeli Jews are from Eastern Europe, Africa, Asian, and Middle Eastern/Arab countries.

Then you have to factor in the fact that 20%+ of Israel's population is Arab, with the bulk of those being Muslim.

It is with this information that I am hesitant to call Israel "the West." But that's me.

Yea, I think I'd buy the idea that Europe in general is the West unless we're specifically talking in the context of modern geopolitics, but if we're doing that, then Israel still has a pretty good argument for being part of the West given how it's usually aligned, so I think Israel has a decent case in either way we're swinging.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2022, 07:45 PM
 
Location: Honolulu/DMV Area/NYC
30,552 posts, read 18,047,529 times
Reputation: 34360
Quote:
Originally Posted by limasol920 View Post
Race is a bunch of nonsense, unscientific garbage, some Americans love to obsessed about it.

Western is a political thing, not a racial thing.

And if we go by "Race" which is once again, nothing scientific about it, then the US is hardly western being that most Americans are mixed race.
Western is political, cultural (which includes our concept of race, the obsession over which is hardly limited to being an American thing), religious, etc.

Also, where are you getting that most Americans are mixed race from?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2022, 07:48 PM
 
Location: Honolulu/DMV Area/NYC
30,552 posts, read 18,047,529 times
Reputation: 34360
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Yea, I think I'd buy the idea that Europe in general is the West unless we're specifically talking in the context of modern geopolitics, but if we're doing that, then Israel still has a pretty good argument for being part of the West given how it's usually aligned, so I think Israel has a decent case in either way we're swinging.
I can see the arguments on both sides for Israel. The more I learn about Israeli society, personally I tend to fall on the not western viewpoint. But that's me.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2022, 09:27 PM
 
17 posts, read 7,404 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
Western is political, cultural (which includes our concept of race, the obsession over which is hardly limited to being an American thing), religious, etc.

Also, where are you getting that most Americans are mixed race from?
Race is genetically non-existent. In every branch of science there is the agreement that race is largely a social construct.

There is no western culture, no one would ever claim all of Western Europe has one culture, cultures in Western Europe change from country to country.

Western is a political concept if anything.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2022, 09:44 PM
 
Location: Taipei
8,862 posts, read 8,390,614 times
Reputation: 7397
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
I feel like if we're going to start going by modernization, then there's a pretty good chunk of East Asia that then conceivably also becomes part of the West as well and more so than some of the parts of what one might consider the West proper. Christianity and Islam are also in some ways a lot closer than Judaism is to either.
No. It's not about modernisation, it's about the culture and society. The religions themselves are probably not that different, but religious practices and religion's position in society are completely different in Israel (basically the same as Europe and America, just with some quirks like Shabbat and kosher etc. and that there's only religious marriage which is quite laughable) and in Islamic states (absolutely insane).

East Asia is not the West. Western cultures and the Far East have nothing in common.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2022, 09:49 PM
 
Location: Honolulu/DMV Area/NYC
30,552 posts, read 18,047,529 times
Reputation: 34360
Quote:
Originally Posted by limasol920 View Post
Race is genetically non-existent. In every branch of science there is the agreement that race is largely a social construct.

There is no western culture, no one would ever claim all of Western Europe has one culture, cultures in Western Europe change from country to country.

Western is a political concept if anything.
Whether race is genetic vs. biological vs. cultural/social construct does nothing to take away from my argument. Race, as we understand and use it, often plays a significant role in culture. Inherently so? Perhaps not. But in practice it does.

You say there is no western culture. I say there is. As do the bulk of the people answering in this thread.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2022, 09:51 PM
 
Location: Taipei
8,862 posts, read 8,390,614 times
Reputation: 7397
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
Whether race is genetic vs. biological vs. cultural/social construct does nothing to take away from my argument. Race, as we understand and use it, often plays a significant role in culture. Inherently so? Perhaps not. But in practice it does.

You say there is no western culture. I say there is. As do the bulk of the people answering in this thread.
Don't engage her. She's a troll.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2022, 09:59 PM
 
17 posts, read 7,404 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
Whether race is genetic vs. biological vs. cultural/social construct does nothing to take away from my argument. Race, as we understand and use it, often plays a significant role in culture. Inherently so? Perhaps not. But in practice it does.

You say there is no western culture. I say there is. As do the bulk of the people answering in this thread.
Really and what is Western culture? French? Spanish? Italian?

what is your culture? american? Look at the demographics of your country, muttmerica if anything is proof social constructs like "race" contribute to nothing when it comes to culture.


Race is NOT biological and has nothing to do with being Western which is once again, pretty political. I however must imagine the shock of the average American with average US schooling to find this out!

Sciences such as anthropology, genetics, biology agree that there race is not a bio/evolutionary taxonomy.

OF course we gotta remember the average American probably does not know what taxonomy means!

Last edited by limasol920; 01-12-2022 at 10:17 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > World
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top