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They have the same roots but Judaism has modernised like Christianity while Islam has not. The Jewish community is thoroughly integrated in modern Europe and America (a bit less so in Europe but mostly it's fine), the Islamic community is not.
The West = Judeo-Christian traditions, democratic/liberal values, and advanced economy. Israel checks all three boxes.
I feel like if we're going to start going by modernization, then there's a pretty good chunk of East Asia that then conceivably also becomes part of the West as well and more so than some of the parts of what one might consider the West proper. Christianity and Islam are also in some ways a lot closer than Judaism is to either.
Unless one is going to call all of Europe "the West," I'm not sure if that argument convinces me personally. The bulk of Israel's European ancestry seems to be from Eastern Europe from what I gather.
Then you have pieces like this (I haven't been able to fact check myself, but I'll take this guy's word for things):
Unless one is going to call all of Europe "the West," I'm not sure if that argument convinces me personally. The bulk of Israel's European ancestry seems to be from Eastern Europe from what I gather.
Then you have pieces like this (I haven't been able to fact check myself, but I'll take this guy's word for things):
Quite a sizable percentage of Israeli Jews are from Eastern Europe, Africa, Asian, and Middle Eastern/Arab countries.
Then you have to factor in the fact that 20%+ of Israel's population is Arab, with the bulk of those being Muslim.
It is with this information that I am hesitant to call Israel "the West." But that's me.
Yea, I think I'd buy the idea that Europe in general is the West unless we're specifically talking in the context of modern geopolitics, but if we're doing that, then Israel still has a pretty good argument for being part of the West given how it's usually aligned, so I think Israel has a decent case in either way we're swinging.
Race is a bunch of nonsense, unscientific garbage, some Americans love to obsessed about it.
Western is a political thing, not a racial thing.
And if we go by "Race" which is once again, nothing scientific about it, then the US is hardly western being that most Americans are mixed race.
Western is political, cultural (which includes our concept of race, the obsession over which is hardly limited to being an American thing), religious, etc.
Also, where are you getting that most Americans are mixed race from?
Yea, I think I'd buy the idea that Europe in general is the West unless we're specifically talking in the context of modern geopolitics, but if we're doing that, then Israel still has a pretty good argument for being part of the West given how it's usually aligned, so I think Israel has a decent case in either way we're swinging.
I can see the arguments on both sides for Israel. The more I learn about Israeli society, personally I tend to fall on the not western viewpoint. But that's me.
Western is political, cultural (which includes our concept of race, the obsession over which is hardly limited to being an American thing), religious, etc.
Also, where are you getting that most Americans are mixed race from?
Race is genetically non-existent. In every branch of science there is the agreement that race is largely a social construct.
There is no western culture, no one would ever claim all of Western Europe has one culture, cultures in Western Europe change from country to country.
I feel like if we're going to start going by modernization, then there's a pretty good chunk of East Asia that then conceivably also becomes part of the West as well and more so than some of the parts of what one might consider the West proper. Christianity and Islam are also in some ways a lot closer than Judaism is to either.
No. It's not about modernisation, it's about the culture and society. The religions themselves are probably not that different, but religious practices and religion's position in society are completely different in Israel (basically the same as Europe and America, just with some quirks like Shabbat and kosher etc. and that there's only religious marriage which is quite laughable) and in Islamic states (absolutely insane).
East Asia is not the West. Western cultures and the Far East have nothing in common.
Race is genetically non-existent. In every branch of science there is the agreement that race is largely a social construct.
There is no western culture, no one would ever claim all of Western Europe has one culture, cultures in Western Europe change from country to country.
Western is a political concept if anything.
Whether race is genetic vs. biological vs. cultural/social construct does nothing to take away from my argument. Race, as we understand and use it, often plays a significant role in culture. Inherently so? Perhaps not. But in practice it does.
You say there is no western culture. I say there is. As do the bulk of the people answering in this thread.
Whether race is genetic vs. biological vs. cultural/social construct does nothing to take away from my argument. Race, as we understand and use it, often plays a significant role in culture. Inherently so? Perhaps not. But in practice it does.
You say there is no western culture. I say there is. As do the bulk of the people answering in this thread.
Whether race is genetic vs. biological vs. cultural/social construct does nothing to take away from my argument. Race, as we understand and use it, often plays a significant role in culture. Inherently so? Perhaps not. But in practice it does.
You say there is no western culture. I say there is. As do the bulk of the people answering in this thread.
Really and what is Western culture? French? Spanish? Italian?
what is your culture? american? Look at the demographics of your country, muttmerica if anything is proof social constructs like "race" contribute to nothing when it comes to culture.
Race is NOT biological and has nothing to do with being Western which is once again, pretty political. I however must imagine the shock of the average American with average US schooling to find this out!
Sciences such as anthropology, genetics, biology agree that there race is not a bio/evolutionary taxonomy.
OF course we gotta remember the average American probably does not know what taxonomy means!
Last edited by limasol920; 01-12-2022 at 10:17 PM..
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