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You forgot German; it's very useful not only in Germany (3rd or 4th economic power) Austria , Switzerland but it's the lingua franca of the whole of Central Europe, Baltic countries, Balkan countries, and even Turkey (a lot of turkish workers in Germany and German tourists in Turkey); you may add Italy and Spain (Germans say jokingly that Mallorca is the 18th State of the FRG). Add to this the NL (Dutch and German are very near, most Dutch understand a bit of German), the Eastern part of Belgium, and in Africa (yes, Africa!) Namibia (former German colony, German widespread), the Cape province in South Africa (a lot of German immigrants), southern Brazil (where there is even a Bavarian town where German is second official language, called Blumenau).
I think German is a very (if seldom choosed) bet , especially for an English speaker (Saxon language as well) and has a much underseved reputation of being difficult.
Did you know that close to 300 million people speak or at least understand German in the world ? secret tip : if you travel to Russia, German is well considered in that country right now in spite of History, and there are many offspring of "Rußlanddeutsche" (German Russian) in many regions. So why bother to learn Russian (save a few words), a very difficult language with another alphabet ? you'll always find a cultured Russian (or Ukrainian) who speaks German!
And why bother learning German if even in Germany and Austria many people can have a basic communication in English?
The Swiss generally are very good in English.
Now about German being a lingua franca in parts of Europe:
The position is taken over by English, especially among the younger generations. Most people agree that English is a much better option than German, one of the reasons is because English is de facto the international lingua franca which is much easier than German.
As for Southern Brazil: It's true that many of the inhabitants have a German ancestry, yet proportionally there have always been more Italians, even in the towns with German names, like Blumenau. And German is practically not spoken anymore there. I had a German friend who lived in southern Brazil. Her mother tongue was Portuguese and she wouldn't speak German had she not moved to Germany when she was eleven.
Russia (and Ukraine): Among the Russlanddeutsche who still remain there, only the 70 years olds can speak a broken German.
Africa: In the regions mentioned most people are competent or even more fluent in English.
I have nothing about German. I like the language and speak it fluently. But I'm just being realistic.
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Last edited by Cornerguy1; 05-25-2008 at 08:29 PM..
You are right, but the thread is here about people having English as a mother tongue learning a second language; so it is "out of bounds" to put here English and German in competition; I still believe German is an important language because Germany is the industrial powerhouse of Europe and is culturally interesting.
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Last edited by Cornerguy1; 05-25-2008 at 08:30 PM..
You are right , but the thread is here about people having English as a mother tongue learning a second language; so it is "out of bounds" to put here English and German in competition; I still believe German is an important language because Germany is the industrial powerhouse of Europe and is culturally interesting.
I do agree that German is an important language because of these two things you mentioned. I just think the reasons you gave in your previous post #18 are not true. Not anymore.
By the way, I'm not a German. I just speak German.
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Last edited by Cornerguy1; 05-25-2008 at 08:31 PM..
I was just wondering what people thought would be the best language for an English speaker to learn if he wanted to travel the world and improve career opportunities.
It comes down to this... I want to fulfill my language requirement in college through Study Abroad. Choices are learn Spanish in Salamanca, learn French in Nice, or learn Italian in Lecce. What would be the funnest? Most practical?
Any thoughts?
To get back to the OP, Spanish is definitely the most useful, but BORING! no offense to the language of Don Quixote and the Inquisition, but learn Italian. It's so beautiful IMHO, and close enough to Spanish that you could easily learn both. Of course none of your listed choices are the best for global business, which is currently...Chinese. If you take the time to learn it, you will be a rock star in global business. Besides, very few Americans successfully learn Chinese, but any beer-guzzling frat boy can pick up decent Spanish in 3 weeks in Guadalajara.
Don't bother to learn Arabic unless you are planning on working in a specific area...Arabic has at least 7 major dialects which are as different as the Romance languages, and the only one that is written and formalized is the classical form of the Qur'an. Plus, why travel somewhere blistering hot where you can't drink or scope bikinis on the beach. Come on Arabs, get with it (j/k)! Good luck, and happy travels
PS - I am proficient in Mandarin, Italian, Spanish, and can get around in spoken Gulf Arabic so I speak from experience!
I've been to Nice and loved it. It's a metro area of only 1 million people, yet it still retains the feel of a small seaside resort. VERY beautiful. Here are some pictures I took last July
I have many more pictures; Nice is a beautiful city and I would highly recommend it.
I have goosebumps after looking at these pics... I miss home. Thanks for sharing!!
So why bother to learn Russian (save a few words), a very difficult language with another alphabet ?
While I wouldn't doubt that Russian may be difficult to learn, its written alphabet is closer to English. I'd say most of the Far east Oriental languages are more difficult to memorize because of all the characters. The Thai written language has been easier for me because most of its characters are usually represent a single letter, although it also contains upper case, lower case, tonal, and special purpose characters. Just not as complex as Chinese, Japanese or Korean.
Someone else mentioned it's easier to learn another language if you have an interest in the people, culture, etc. That's also the way it was for me to learn Thai. Thai script contains (I think) 77 characters. Compare that with the 26 letters of the English alphabet.
I still have a hard time with some things and remembering certain tones, as the Thai language is also a tonal language. Same for dialects. That is to say, some words may sound the same, but the tone changes the meaning making it a completely different word. But overall, learning it has been easier for me because I've known a lot of Thai people in the U.S. and have an interest in the country. I think it's much more helpful to learn a different language if you have an interest or a need to learn it. That's just my opinion though.
In general though, I'd have to agree that English is certainly considered the international language for most of the world. That said, there's a saying I remember someone telling me once long ago about Thailand:
"There's Bangkok... and then there's the rest of Thailand." There's not much English spoken outside of certain sections of the larger cities.
English is taught as a second language in Thailand, but once students leave class, they don't usually have the opportunity to practice it. So, at home and around friends, speaking is done in Thai for most of the citizens. And the result is that their English skills are not great and sometimes hard to understand what they're saying. That's not the case for all Thais though. Many speak English quite well, although you'll still hear their accent. Some Thai people comment that my Thai language skills are as good as Thai people, but I doubt that. I don't think there's any mistaking my skills are never as good as the average Thai, even though I can manage to keep up with a fairly good conversation. Sometimes, if I don't understand something, I find a way to ask for a different kind of definition so I can better understand.
I think when trying to learn any language, it may be difficult at first, but once you have some of the basics down, the language's native speakers often appreciate the effort you've made to try to learn their language. And yes, it can indeed open doors of opportunity that might never otherwise be available to the average person who doesn't know the language.
Just not as complex as Chinese, Japanese or Korean.
I would exclude Korean here.
Even though it still uses Hanja, you can get by quite well only using Hangul.
As a comparison, in Japan, learning a certain amount of basic Kanji is imperative to use the language on a basic level.
I got the impression you were looking to fulfill your academic requirement and have fun with a language not studying for the marketplace. If that is true I agree with Crewbank. Italian is glorious and will help with Spanish as well. Italy is beautiful. I love France and French would be fun but with Italian you get the two for one, kind of. And for me Italian has a quality unlike any other language in its musicality and voice. It definitely fits the "fun" requirement!
I would exclude Korean here.
Even though it still uses Hanja, you can get by quite well only using Hangul.
As a comparison, in Japan, learning a certain amount of basic Kanji is imperative to use the language on a basic level.
I'm sure you're right Neuter, but to my eyes, I can't make heads or tails of it. It still gets down to taking a personal interest in any second language to learn it, even at basic skill levels. I know Thai can be just as daunting and confusing to some people as well.
Hats off to anyone who takes the time to learn a second language. Or third. Or fourth. Etc. I'm sure you'd agree it not only enriches the person, but makes a lot of opportunities available they'd otherwise not understand or know about?
I'm sure you're right Neuter, but to my eyes, I can't make heads or tails of it. It still gets down to taking a personal interest in any second language to learn it, even at basic skill levels. I know Thai can be just as daunting and confusing to some people as well.
Hats off to anyone who takes the time to learn a second language. Or third. Or fourth. Etc. I'm sure you'd agree it not only enriches the person, but makes a lot of opportunities available they'd otherwise not understand or know about?
I agree with you.
If Chinese and Japanese didn't use thousands of characters whose pronunciation you need to learn independently, I would've learned more by now.
Korean Hangul, on the other hand, provides one with an exact key to pronunciation.
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