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Old 11-22-2022, 03:36 PM
 
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They are less keen for their own countries to retaliate. Lots of charts at the link. Make sure to see the last.

https://morningconsult.com/2022/11/1...a&stream=china
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Old 11-22-2022, 09:11 PM
 
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What's surprising. Countries would rather some other country do the leg work. Sounds about right. It should be mentioned that military intervention is the least popular course of action.
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Old 11-23-2022, 03:20 AM
Status: "“If a thing loves, it is infinite.”" (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: Great Britain
27,170 posts, read 13,455,286 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice_Major View Post
What's surprising. Countries would rather some other country do the leg work. Sounds about right. It should be mentioned that military intervention is the least popular course of action.
Other than the UK and France, the rest of Europe don't have the naval or transport capabilities to do anything, and European defence is mainly about home defence and has been since the end of WW2.

In relation to France, it has always been more interested in European defence and European foreign policy, and is usually reluctant to get involved in anything US led.

France even left NATO in 1966, and closed US bases in France, and France did not return to NATO until 2009, however the French have constantly supported European defence over the US led NATO.

This leaves Britain, which currently has been going through a period of strained relations, due to the actions of recent US administrations, the NATO threats made by Trump and the US withdrawal from Afghanistan, among numerous other things.

I don't think there is any appetite in Europe for a war with China, and the US policy is to support Taiwan in terms of arms and supplies but to stay out of any war, but that's up to the US.

As for allies Australia, Vietnam, Singapore, Indonesia, Japan, South Korea etc are more likely allies for the US in relation to China than European nations, and I question the validity of the article, as modern Europeans do not generally want to engage in wars in other parts of the world.

In terms of the EU, it's currently looking to respond to Biden's Inflation Reduction Act, along with US subsidies and protectionism, in what could turn in to a transatlantic trade war.

Quote:
Originally Posted by POLITICO

EU’s top economies leave behind their recent tensions to push for EU action amid trade war fears.

BERLIN/PARIS — Germany and France pushed Tuesday for tougher industrial policies such as more state subsidies for European businesses to counter the threat from U.S. reforms that risk triggering a transatlantic trade war.

The EU’s two leading economies put aside their bad blood of the past weeks to issue a joint statement vowing to "explore industrial policy possibilities" to safeguard European industries from discriminatory trade measures from Washington and also Beijing.

The declaration, which comes after two days of high-level ministerial meetings in Paris — including French President Emmanuel Macron inviting German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock and Economy Minister Robert Habeck to the Elysée Palace — signals an escalation of European efforts to protect home-grown manufacturing from the threat of unfair competition from the U.S.

Paris and Berlin are increasingly frustrated that U.S. President Joe Biden's administration is showing little interest in addressing their concerns about the Inflation Reduction Act, a $369 billion package of subsidies and tax breaks to boost American green businesses. From a European perspective, the American act is a protectionist measure because it encourages companies to shift investments from Europe and incentivises customers to "Buy American" when it comes to purchasing an electric vehicle.

Germany and France join forces against Biden in subsidy battle - POLTICO

Last edited by Brave New World; 11-23-2022 at 04:39 AM..
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Old 11-23-2022, 09:26 AM
 
1,651 posts, read 866,625 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
Other than the UK and France, the rest of Europe don't have the naval or transport capabilities to do anything, and European defence is mainly about home defence and has been since the end of WW2.

In relation to France, it has always been more interested in European defence and European foreign policy, and is usually reluctant to get involved in anything US led.

France even left NATO in 1966, and closed US bases in France, and France did not return to NATO until 2009, however the French have constantly supported European defence over the US led NATO.

This leaves Britain, which currently has been going through a period of strained relations, due to the actions of recent US administrations, the NATO threats made by Trump and the US withdrawal from Afghanistan, among numerous other things.

I don't think there is any appetite in Europe for a war with China, and the US policy is to support Taiwan in terms of arms and supplies but to stay out of any war, but that's up to the US.

As for allies Australia, Vietnam, Singapore, Indonesia, Japan, South Korea etc are more likely allies for the US in relation to China than European nations, and I question the validity of the article, as modern Europeans do not generally want to engage in wars in other parts of the world.

In terms of the EU, it's currently looking to respond to Biden's Inflation Reduction Act, along with US subsidies and protectionism, in what could turn in to a transatlantic trade war.

I'm not so sure the U.K isn't lock in step with the U.S. While true there are disagreements, the U.K. along with Australia, and Canada have been very hawkish towards China, in line with U.S. policy. Can't see them diverging at this point.

The article doesn't disagree with you regarding military intervention. Not just Europe but most countries aren't in support of military involvement since for nations such as South Korea and Japan, would mean becoming targets in any conflict. Most just want sanctions and other economic measures. I also wouldn't call Vietnam an ally of the U.S. I find it odd that people keep referring to Vietnam as an ally. Is there a defense agreement? Is Vietnam going to allow U.S. troops in their country? That would be spitting on Ho Chi Minh, and the millions of lives lives lost in the Vietnam conflict grave. Sure, they don’t trust China, but I’m certain they have just a little trust for the U.S. Vietnam as with India are merely playing all sides for benefits.
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Old 11-23-2022, 12:32 PM
 
1,912 posts, read 1,128,986 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humphrey_C_Earwicker View Post
They are less keen for their own countries to retaliate. Lots of charts at the link. Make sure to see the last.

https://morningconsult.com/2022/11/1...a&stream=china
Thanks for sharing. The article says that US allies want the US to lead, but they aren't as keen on their own countries taking action.

Freeloaders. Shame on them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
This leaves Britain, which currently has been going through a period of strained relations, due to the actions of recent US administrations, the NATO threats made by Trump and the US withdrawal from Afghanistan, among numerous other things.
Americans don't like Trump, either: see the midterm election results. Maybe Biden has some pro-Irish/anti-British personal feelings (maybe) but even if he does, they don't affect policy. And the Afghanistan disaster has been made up (and more) by resolute support for Ukraine.

Time for the US, UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand to come together and act with a united voice: perhaps a "super-Nato" or "super-Commonwealth", with five very similar countries very closely aligned.

The US likes the UK even if Brave New World doesn't like Americans.
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Old 11-23-2022, 12:57 PM
 
1,764 posts, read 1,026,544 times
Reputation: 1943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
Other than the UK and France, the rest of Europe don't have the naval or transport capabilities to do anything, and European defence is mainly about home defence and has been since the end of WW2.

In relation to France, it has always been more interested in European defence and European foreign policy, and is usually reluctant to get involved in anything US led.

France even left NATO in 1966, and closed US bases in France, and France did not return to NATO until 2009, however the French have constantly supported European defence over the US led NATO.

This leaves Britain, which currently has been going through a period of strained relations, due to the actions of recent US administrations, the NATO threats made by Trump and the US withdrawal from Afghanistan, among numerous other things.

I don't think there is any appetite in Europe for a war with China, and the US policy is to support Taiwan in terms of arms and supplies but to stay out of any war, but that's up to the US.

As for allies Australia, Vietnam, Singapore, Indonesia, Japan, South Korea etc are more likely allies for the US in relation to China than European nations, and I question the validity of the article, as modern Europeans do not generally want to engage in wars in other parts of the world.

In terms of the EU, it's currently looking to respond to Biden's Inflation Reduction Act, along with US subsidies and protectionism, in what could turn in to a transatlantic trade war.
You have failed to mention the very recent military treaty where: UK being part of the AUKUS treaty with Australia and USA on military and security matters.
The AUKUS treaty is an agreement between Australia, the US and the UK. Signed in 2021, it facilitates cooperation on security issues in the Indo-Pacific between the three countries – specifically, it concerns the sharing of ‘military capabilities and critical technologies, such as cyber, artificial intelligence, quantum technologies, and undersea domains’

The AUKUS agreement reflects the increased attention that the US, UK and Australia are paying to the Indo-Pacific and their commitment to constraining China’s exercise of power in the region.

https://www.chathamhouse.org/2022/08...ukus-agreement

The AUKUS treaty has angered France, because France missed out a massive multibillion dollar submarine deal with Australia, as it was originally agreed prior to the AUSUK deal for Australia to buy the French submarines. But the Australia government then changed their mind instead and wanted to buy nuclear powered submarine and France only was going to sell electric power submarine. The US and UK then offered to sell nuclear powered submarines. After the AUKUS treaty, relations with France were tense with Australia, UK and USA. BTW if the UK saw France a more reliable military partner with France, they would not bother with being part of the AUKUS pact, as they know it will anger France.

The French president has continued to be critical on the terms of the AUKUS treaty: re-entering into nuclear confrontation, making himself completely dependent by deciding to equip themselves with a submarine fleet that the Australians are incapable of producing and maintaining in-house.https://www.afr.com/politics/federal...0221118-p5bzg8

Plus the loss of the contract by France:
For France, the loss is not only about a lucrative contract, but more about the eroded trust between itself and its "close allies." A stab in its back by AUKUS reminded France of 19th-century British statesman Lord Palmerston's famous quote -- "We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual."

No wonder the then French Foreign Minister, Jean-Yves Le Drian, was infuriated, berating that "there has been duplicity, contempt and lies." Australia did reach a settlement with France by paying a 585-million-U.S.-dollar compensation, but General Charles de Gaulle's judgement stands the test of time: "Never did the Anglo-Saxons really treat us as real allies."http://en.people.cn/n3/2022/1026/c90000-10163729.html

Last edited by herenow1; 11-23-2022 at 01:44 PM..
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Old 11-23-2022, 01:04 PM
 
Location: New England
3,267 posts, read 1,747,333 times
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Oh great, like we need another Vietnam.
Let them fix their own problems.
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Old 11-23-2022, 01:19 PM
 
Location: San Diego CA
8,484 posts, read 6,889,316 times
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The United States has a long history of knee jerk interventionist policies with no plan for an endgame. The pinnacle of this folly was the Afghan War that lasted so long that our service members who were part of the initial military action had daughters and sons who were old enough to fight in the same war. Let our so called Allies do the deed. This country has spent billions on our forever wars diverted from tax dollars that could have benefited Americans at home. We are not the mercenaries who fight or bankroll other peoples wars.
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Old 11-23-2022, 01:29 PM
 
10,864 posts, read 6,478,124 times
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Wars are very expensive,when the British sent troops to fight the Argentinians in defence of the Falkland Islands,the supply lines cost $1 million daily,I am sure it would cost a lot more now.
UK economy is in the dog house,the last thing they need is help to fight someone else war
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Old 11-23-2022, 01:39 PM
 
10,864 posts, read 6,478,124 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driver 47 View Post
Oh great, like we need another Vietnam.
Let them fix their own problems.
we want to stay as number 1 top dog,if anyone threatens us,we will fight .
It is like two rooster fighting in the ring ,place your bet now
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