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Old 01-01-2024, 12:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post

The rise of right wing parties including Le Pen's National Rally, which have links to Russia and criticise Western support for Ukraine could well be a further problem for the US, and it might surprise some Americans that France has a history of close relations with Soviets even during the Cold War, whilst post Cold War Germany always looked on Russia as a close ally.
This suggests that we may soon see realignments, or at least de-alignments. Major shifts away from Cold War alliances, with some countries seeking an accommodation with Russia.
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Old 01-01-2024, 03:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Randal Walker View Post
It seems that India is supplying Armenia with weapons.
India is like the K-mart of weapons manufacturing. They rely on cheap copies of Russian or Chinese military technology which in turn are cheap copies of American military technology. This is why India gets their ass kicked whenever they dogfight Pakistani fighters (armed with American tech) during the periodic border disputes.
Good luck to Armenia!
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Old 01-02-2024, 05:38 AM
Status: "“If a thing loves, it is infinite.”" (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Great Britain
27,187 posts, read 13,477,157 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Randal Walker View Post
This suggests that we may soon see realignments, or at least de-alignments. Major shifts away from Cold War alliances, with some countries seeking an accommodation with Russia.


It's not a realignment, as even during the Cold War there was a Franc-Soviet relationship, and Russia has traditionally been an important European power.

As for France, it has never been supportive of Post WW2 US interference in Europe, and it closed US bases back in 1966 and struck up closer relations with the Soviets, whilst leaving NATO's central command structure.

The French did rejoin the NATO Command structure back in 2009, however they are still keen advocates of a European Defence pact to compliment or even replace NATO.
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Old 01-02-2024, 05:45 AM
Status: "“If a thing loves, it is infinite.”" (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Great Britain
27,187 posts, read 13,477,157 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice_Major View Post
The problem with Europe is that it isn't as coherent as they try to portray. I often wonder if article 5 were triggered, how many members would actually come to the defense of that attacked nation? Do Norway and Turkey really have much in common that would cause them to send troops to each other aid. How reliable would Slovenia be for example. NATO worked when it was smaller and focused on a singular adversary (the Warsaw Pact). Now it seems more like a club which weaker nations get free defense commitments from stronger nations. In return the stronger nations get a level of vassal like control. As Bismarck put it "within an alliance, there is always a horse and and rider."

To a large degree the Ukraine war exposed NATO. Hungry and Turkey are showing division is present. Outside of this the Baltic nations and Poland are at odds with other members regarding the level of Ukraine support. This is the problem with an alliance grows to this size.

In the end I think it would be better for Europe to divide its defense into blocks. The Baltic Nations and Finland, and Poland can form their own units since they are all terrified of the Russians. No need to try and drag other European states such as Hungry into their line of thinking.
In terms of Northern Europe, Britain heads what is known as the Joint Expeditionary Force (JEF). with 3 Commando RM's and Amphibious forces experts in Mountain and Arctic Warfare, and who regularly train with their North European counterparts.

In terms of Anglo-French (Franco- British) military cooperation, the Lancaster House Treaties which were signed in 2010 saw the development of the Combined Joint Expeditionary Force (CJEF) as well as cooperation in relation to nuclear technology, military technology, missiles, UAV's etc. The CJEF contains land, sea and air components, and utilises units from 16th Air Assault Brigade and the French Foreign Legion.

Britain also participates in European initiatives such as the European Permanent Structured Cooperation (PESCO), which is an alternative command structure to NATO, and signed up to PESCO's Military Mobility project in 2022, with a view to becoming a full member of PESCO.

Britain is also committed to the European Sky Shield Initiative, a project to build a ground-based integrated European air defense system which includes anti-ballistic missile capability.

Britain also hosts the European Air Group, as well as the Allied Rapid Reaction Corps (ARRC) and is home to the Allied Maritime Command at the Northwood Headquarters in North London.

Britain is also in the process of Strengthening UK-Germany defence cooperation.

Last edited by Brave New World; 01-02-2024 at 06:11 AM..
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Old 01-02-2024, 06:12 AM
Status: "“If a thing loves, it is infinite.”" (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Great Britain
27,187 posts, read 13,477,157 times
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Britain is also participating in the Global Combat Air Programme along with Japan, Italy and other allies.

GCAPs aim is to develop a future sixth-generation stealth fighter to replace the Eurogighter Typhoon and Mitsubishi F-2.

Britain also participates in AUKUS security partnership, as well as being a member of Five Eyes and hosts the Defence Intelligence Fusion Centre at RAF Wyton, the world's only hub where personnel from across the Five Eyes alliance.

Britain is also building a £5 Billion National Cyber Force to be based in Samlesbury which will allow a greater range of defensive and offensive cyber capabilities.

So we are in a lot of alliances, and if the US were to pivot away from Europe then such alliances would have to be strengthened in relation to our European allies, with PESCO possible being the genesis of some kind of future European Command Structure, if NATO ever needed to be replaced.

Last edited by Brave New World; 01-02-2024 at 06:28 AM..
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Old 01-02-2024, 06:51 AM
 
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As I've mentioned in other threads I'm married into a Ukrainian family so that's always been a concern for us, and it doesn't look like it's getting better anytime soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Wadd View Post
India is like the K-mart of weapons manufacturing. They rely on cheap copies of Russian or Chinese military technology which in turn are cheap copies of American military technology. This is why India gets their ass kicked whenever they dogfight Pakistani fighters (armed with American tech) during the periodic border disputes.
Good luck to Armenia!
So are the weapons like the boxer shorts that Rain Man have to get? lol
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Old 01-02-2024, 09:16 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAandATL View Post
As I've mentioned in other threads I'm married into a Ukrainian family so that's always been a concern for us, and it doesn't look like it's getting better anytime soon.



So are the weapons like the boxer shorts that Rain Man have to get? lol
Ha.
Let's put it this way, the Indian made Insas rifles were such bad quality that their own army rejected them, they have the label of "worst assault rifle ever produced".

India is kind of forced now into developing their defense industry because all the Russian weapons they used to buy are now being used by Russia in Ukraine. I do hope India gets there act together because they can be a really great military ally to the US to counter China and Russia but they just got in the habit of buying Russia's cast-off surplus cold war era crappy weapons for decades. If they use these to reverse engineer there own models (I think they did this to create there own fighter jets, which in turn were no match for Pakistani, who are suppled with American technology) then they will never become a regional military power.

Edit: Ukraine, sad to say, has turned into a war of attrition. Ukraine does not have the manpower to sustain that for much longer, and Putin/Russia has plenty of manpower and no regard for casualties. Ukraine should negotiate terms while it still can do from a position of relative strength. Sadly, this means losing some land.

Last edited by Johnny Wadd; 01-02-2024 at 09:29 AM..
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Old 01-02-2024, 06:27 PM
 
1,651 posts, read 868,691 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Wadd View Post
Ha.
Let's put it this way, the Indian made Insas rifles were such bad quality that their own army rejected them, they have the label of "worst assault rifle ever produced".

India is kind of forced now into developing their defense industry because all the Russian weapons they used to buy are now being used by Russia in Ukraine. I do hope India gets there act together because they can be a really great military ally to the US to counter China and Russia but they just got in the habit of buying Russia's cast-off surplus cold war era crappy weapons for decades. If they use these to reverse engineer there own models (I think they did this to create there own fighter jets, which in turn were no match for Pakistani, who are suppled with American technology) then they will never become a regional military power.

Edit: Ukraine, sad to say, has turned into a war of attrition. Ukraine does not have the manpower to sustain that for much longer, and Putin/Russia has plenty of manpower and no regard for casualties. Ukraine should negotiate terms while it still can do from a position of relative strength. Sadly, this means losing some land.
India is already a regional power. India is in one of the best positions for any country going forward. They have decent relations with other global powers except China, but even in that relationship, they maintain a level of cooperation (see BRICS). If the Indians are smart, they will continue to play the other powers against each other for their own benefit. It does no good to plant themselves firmly in the U.S. camp. Neutral is the best play. Regarding weapons, no one disputes Russian weapons aren't as good as U.S. weapons technology wise, but Russian weapons have 2 advantages in the global arms business.

1) They are easier to reverse engineer or modify.
2) They are cheaper, both in price but also maintenance.

The AK-47 is a good example. In no way was it better than the U.S. M-16, but it became the most popular assault rifle for its time based the above two points. You also mention fighter planes. Pakistan has all sorts of limitations on what they can do with them. What's the purpose of purchasing advanced aircraft if they’re limited in application. Besides, to some degree the U.S. tends to over engineer things. One of the reasons, the arms cost so much.
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Old 01-03-2024, 12:08 AM
 
284 posts, read 331,313 times
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The AK 47 is simple, rugged and dependable while also being effective. Troops can smash it and abuse in any way, pour sand and mud over it and know that it was still going to work the next time they pull the trigger. Afaik the early versions of the M16 were less reliable and more prone to jamming. No one can dispute the AK47 is one of the most successful, if not THE most successful rifle design in modern history.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice_Major View Post
Regarding weapons, no one disputes Russian weapons aren't as good as U.S. weapons technology wise, but Russian weapons have 2 advantages in the global arms business.

1) They are easier to reverse engineer or modify.
2) They are cheaper, both in price but also maintenance.
It depends on what you define as "good". Did you factor in costs?

Western weapons like the Leopards and Challengers were touted as super combat effective before the war, but they're also super complex to build and maintain.

Using a WW2 analogy if it applies, perhaps Western weapon design is morphing into the German philosophy of "quality over quantity". In their obsession to make their weapons better than the enemy's, the Germans went the extra mile and made their weapons very complex. Case in point being the Panthers and Tiger tanks, very effective in combat, but not that reliable and notoriously labour intensive to build and maintain.

Soviet designs differed in that they were built with mass production and ease of maintainence in mind, designed with ruggedness for harsh environments, while also being effective enough in combat.

Look at the T34 tanks vs the German counterparts. If the Germans destroyed a T34 the Soviets will replace it with another 3, but once a Tiger was destroyed the Germans can't replace it. A lot of historians argue that Germany's obssession with quality over quantity contributed to their loss.

In modern times, the Western industrial base has degraded considerably over the last 30 years in a race to deindustrialise and turn into service economies. Afaik militarily Western doctrine before the Ukraine war predicted the decline of industrial warfare in favour of less but more precise weapons, but this war is proving that is absolutely not the case, and the Western MIC isn't as geared towards mass production now than even a few decades ago.

Last edited by ciTydude123; 01-03-2024 at 12:51 AM..
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Old 01-03-2024, 04:27 AM
 
284 posts, read 331,313 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Wadd View Post
I do hope India gets there act together because they can be a really great military ally to the US to counter China and Russia
If one's concern for a country is for little other purpose than to use it to play off against their adversaries, then it shows that their concern is not for that country, but rather to use that country for their own benefit. I don't see how India worsening its relationship with 2 juggernauts in its backyard for the benefit for one an ocean away is beneficial for India.

India doesn't tell Russia to take India's side on its border disputes with China. The result is an almost frictionless relationship.

India is free to choose its own path and future for itself, and it's not realistic for anyone to expect India to oblige to become a geopolitical pawn for anyone else.

Last edited by ciTydude123; 01-03-2024 at 05:28 AM..
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