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Old 10-18-2010, 01:16 PM
 
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About 5-9% of Jamaica's population is White, mixed or "other", which includes a community of Middle Easterners and Chinese in that percent...So thats not exactly a staggering high number. And definately not high enough to say that the typical Jamaican is "English". No more so than saying the typical Hispanic is "Spanish". As far as the Southern part of South America goes, yea there are plenty of Italians there. I brought that up with Argentina but left out its direct neighbor Uruguay and the Southern part of Brazil. Big deal. The fact remains that the OTHER 80% of Latin America is not close to Italians. Which would be Central Americans, Most Caribbean nation's, and most of South America.

 
Old 10-18-2010, 10:49 PM
 
Location: Center of the universe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ♥♥PRINC3Ss♥♥ View Post
Latinos and Italian Americans? Not much unless you are talking about Cubans. Italians and Spaniards from Europe? Yes they have many things in common. Latin Americans living in their own countries and Italians, some similarities too, not as many as the previous group.

And please those who want to turn this into a illegal immigration debate, please take it to the illegal immigration or Phoenix Arizona board.
I think there are lots of similarities between Spaniards, Portuguese, southern French and Italians............in an American context (NE USA) many Latinos who have predominantly Spanish ancestry tend to assimilate closer to each other because of proximity in neighborhoods, schools, etc. Many people in the NYC/NJ/Phila. area have both Italian and Latino background. Also, many Latinos (Puerto Ricans, Venezuelans, Cubans, Argentines) have strong Italian background even before they come to the US. Argentines speak Spanish with a strong Italian accent.

On the other hand, lots of Latinos, including Cubans, are black, mulatto or indigenous, and you won't be mistaking them for Italians. Not even Irv Gotti..........who's Dominican.
 
Old 10-18-2010, 11:13 PM
 
Location: 30-40°N 90-100°W
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As indicated Argentines would be the most likely of Hispanics to have Italian ancestry. Brazil apparently has even more Italians, but Brazilians are not Hispanics. "Hispanic" refers to having Spanish cultural or biological ancestry, but Brazilians are Portuguese. Although I imagine many Americans would think of Brazilians as Hispanics anyway.

As for differences between Italian and Spanish culture there are several I think. Spain had much more Moorish and Mozarabic influences. I think the Spanish tend to downplay that, but you can hear it in some of the place names and sounds regardless. Although the autonomous region of Spain retain a great deal of individual identity I think Spain still united much earlier than Italy did. Also Spain was more a series of kingdoms pre-unity. Italy was like a mix of kingdoms, republics, and city-states. And I'm sure many other things, but I'm rather tired. The culture difference with Hispanic and Italian would be even easier though because "Hispanic", unless we include the people of Spain as Hispanic, generally have a strong American-Indian and/or African influence in their ancestry and culture.
 
Old 10-19-2010, 12:20 AM
 
88 posts, read 364,989 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonaos View Post
About 5-9% of Jamaica's population is White, mixed or "other", which includes a community of Middle Easterners and Chinese in that percent...So thats not exactly a staggering high number. And definately not high enough to say that the typical Jamaican is "English". No more so than saying the typical Hispanic is "Spanish". As far as the Southern part of South America goes, yea there are plenty of Italians there. I brought that up with Argentina but left out its direct neighbor Uruguay and the Southern part of Brazil. Big deal. The fact remains that the OTHER 80% of Latin America is not close to Italians. Which would be Central Americans, Most Caribbean nation's, and most of South America.
Jamaica with out a doubt had less mixing throughout it's history. Mostly due to the fact it was home to a massive population of Black slaves that outnumbered the White European population significantly. Still there are people of British decent. That is not the case for the former Spanish and Portuguese colonies. Almost everyone in Latin America is of Spanish and Portuguese decent and there is a sizable number of Italians.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
I think there are lots of similarities between Spaniards, Portuguese, southern French and Italians............in an American context (NE USA) many Latinos who have predominantly Spanish ancestry tend to assimilate closer to each other because of proximity in neighborhoods, schools, etc. Many people in the NYC/NJ/Phila. area have both Italian and Latino background. Also, many Latinos (Puerto Ricans, Venezuelans, Cubans, Argentines) have strong Italian background even before they come to the US. Argentines speak Spanish with a strong Italian accent.

On the other hand, lots of Latinos, including Cubans, are black, mulatto or indigenous, and you won't be mistaking them for Italians. Not even Irv Gotti..........who's Dominican.
Cubans are not mulatto, one of the biggest misconceptions. It is not that simple. There are so many racial combinations in Cuba and the rest of Latin America you cannot just label them Black+White or White+Indigenous. The vast majority of Latin Americans have tri-racial ancestry according to the American definition of race. Some even have four racial combinations. I would say there is a significant number of Cubans in Cuba and in the United States that look White and will pass for White in any circumstance. Often being mistaken for Italian in the United States. Cuba even experienced significant Russian/Eastern European immigration in modern times and I am positive there was significant Italian immigration as well.

BTW, many Italians even in Italy are multiracial. Not just the Muslims from Africa, the Roman Empire was the center of trade and commerce for centuries. There were many different people living and traveling across a number of countries in three continents.

Throughout modern history it has been frowned upon to be Black or have any Black ancestry due to racist policies and ideals. I am not some Black guy trying to push the Italian people into the Black category. I am of European decent but even I know I have other races beyond pure White in my blood. I am tired of the racism which is social and has no biological basis. The truth is we all come from the same people. It is disgusting how this concept has turned us against one another.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
As indicated Argentines would be the most likely of Hispanics to have Italian ancestry. Brazil apparently has even more Italians, but Brazilians are not Hispanics. "Hispanic" refers to having Spanish cultural or biological ancestry, but Brazilians are Portuguese. Although I imagine many Americans would think of Brazilians as Hispanics anyway.

As for differences between Italian and Spanish culture there are several I think. Spain had much more Moorish and Mozarabic influences. I think the Spanish tend to downplay that, but you can hear it in some of the place names and sounds regardless. Although the autonomous region of Spain retain a great deal of individual identity I think Spain still united much earlier than Italy did. Also Spain was more a series of kingdoms pre-unity. Italy was like a mix of kingdoms, republics, and city-states. And I'm sure many other things, but I'm rather tired. The culture difference with Hispanic and Italian would be even easier though because "Hispanic", unless we include the people of Spain as Hispanic, generally have a strong American-Indian and/or African influence in their ancestry and culture.
Although Brazil was a Portuguese colony there are many people of Spanish decent living within it's borders. There are also a number of other European countries that have settled in large numbers and heavy immigration from other parts of Latin America. Brazilians are Latin Americans no matter how you put it. Portuguese is a Latin language like Spanish. They are strongly influenced by neighboring countries and have more similarities to nations such as Chile, Argentina, Venezuela, Puerto Rico, than they do Portugal. Not to say Portugal is not a strong influence because it is. Brazil is another highly mixed race society as well. There are a number of indigenous tribes that exist till this day, a significant African population, even people from China and the Middle East. Latin America is literally a look into the future of the human race.

Yes Spain has many people with ancestry other that White if not the vast majority. Europe in general was controlled by a number of different empires and many people of different backgrounds traveled across these places. Italy was no exception. There was also significant immigration from northern Africa (Northern Africa is another largely mixed race society) and still is illegal immigration until this day.

Check this out:

Imperial History of the Middle East


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YwP-ZXI0Tg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBSTq...eature=related
 
Old 10-19-2010, 01:40 AM
 
Location: Center of the universe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nykeroutoftown View Post
Jamaica with out a doubt had less mixing throughout it's history. Mostly due to the fact it was home to a massive population of Black slaves that outnumbered the White European population significantly. Still there are people of British decent. That is not the case for the former Spanish and Portuguese colonies. Almost everyone in Latin America is of Spanish and Portuguese decent and there is a sizable number of Italians.
I think a problem I see in your statement is that you are emphasizing European influence above all other when it comes to Latin America. I would venture to say that the majority of Jamaicans are of African descent, but also mixed, maybe not extensively, but definitely, with indigenous Arawak, British and some Spanish. Just as you can say that almost everyone is of Spanish, Portuguese or Italian descent in Latin America, you can also say that almost everyone in Latin America is not white (i.e., of pure or overwhelming European descent).

Quote:
Cubans are not mulatto, one of the biggest misconceptions. It is not that simple. There are so many racial combinations in Cuba and the rest of Latin America you cannot just label them Black+White or White+Indigenous. The vast majority of Latin Americans have tri-racial ancestry according to the American definition of race. Some even have four racial combinations.
Full disclosure. My mother's side of the family is Cuban. I consider us to be Afro-Cuban, but indeed we are composed of Afro-Cuban, Haitian of mixed French and African descent, indigenous Taino, Canary Islander and Chinese origins. In Cuba, and even outside of the island, my family is considered mulatto. We come from four racial origins, but we are very cognizant and proud of our African background. Yes, most Latin Americans are biracial (mulatto or mestizo) or triracial. There is no disputing that. Most Latin Americans, however, are not white. This is especially true in Cuba.

Quote:
I would say there is a significant number of Cubans in Cuba and in the United States that look White and will pass for White in any circumstance.
The Cuban and Cuban-descended population in the USA is overwhelmingly white or near-white; the population of Cuba itself is much less so. The whites tended to be affluent and most likely to lose their wealth thanks to Castro, so they left. The Cubans who remained were much more mulatto and black. About 65% of Cuba's population today is black, mulatto or mestizo.


Quote:
Often being mistaken for Italian in the United States. Cuba even experienced significant Russian/Eastern European immigration in modern times and I am positive there was significant Italian immigration as well.
Again, the US Cubans are quite different from the Cubans in Cuba.

Quote:
BTW, many Italians even in Italy are multiracial. Not just the Muslims from Africa, the Roman Empire was the center of trade and commerce for centuries. There were many different people living and traveling across a number of countries in three continents.
Agreed.

Quote:
Throughout modern history it has been frowned upon to be Black or have any Black ancestry due to racist policies and ideals.
This is certainly true among Latin Americans.

Quote:
I am not some Black guy trying to push the Italian people into the Black category. I am of European decent but even I know I have other races beyond pure White in my blood. I am tired of the racism which is social and has no biological basis. The truth is we all come from the same people. It is disgusting how this concept has turned us against one another.
I am very mixed, but am adamant about calling myself Black. It's a result of growing up in the USA.

Quote:
Although Brazil was a Portuguese colony there are many people of Spanish decent living within it's borders. There are also a number of other European countries that have settled in large numbers and heavy immigration from other parts of Latin America. Brazilians are Latin Americans no matter how you put it. Portuguese is a Latin language like Spanish. They are strongly influenced by neighboring countries and have more similarities to nations such as Chile, Argentina, Venezuela, Puerto Rico, than they do Portugal. Not to say Portugal is not a strong influence because it is. Brazil is another highly mixed race society as well. There are a number of indigenous tribes that exist till this day, a significant African population, even people from China and the Middle East. Latin America is literally a look into the future of the human race.
Brazil has the most Japanese outside Japan, the most African descendents outside Africa, many Italians, Lebanese, Syrians, Chinese, Armenians, Ukranians, Koreans, etc.
 
Old 10-19-2010, 06:19 AM
 
2,226 posts, read 5,089,736 times
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One thing is CULTURE and another thing is RACE.

Latin American culture is more similar to old Italy, Italy two generations ago, than to modern Italy notwithstanding the fact they are mestizo, black, white or Chinese.

Race is not determinant. Some English and Americans might share the same blood, but I can't think of any two people as radically different.

Roman culture never placed any importance on race, but on CULTURE, CIVILIZATIO. Their method of Civilization was taking natives by their ears and out of the mountains and teach them their CULTURE using force.

Thus, the ROMAN EMPIRE was composed of ROMAN CITIZENS belonging from every race in the known world, and Spain followed the same model in America.

On the other hand, Barbarian Invaders were TRIBAL and are not civilized, that's why they divide their world between their particular TRIBE and the rest. The two visions can be ascertained in the difference between Lation America and North America.
 
Old 10-20-2010, 08:34 PM
 
686 posts, read 1,693,328 times
Reputation: 156
[quote=Lucario;16313055]I

Yes, most Latin Americans are biracial (mulatto or mestizo) or triracial. There is no disputing that. Most Latin Americans, however, are not white. This is especially true in Cuba.



Not entirley true, there are many white latin americans, they make up the second largest group of people after mestizos (indian-white).

Yes most Cubans in America are white but whites still make up a large portion of Cuba too, about 37%.
 
Old 10-20-2010, 10:35 PM
 
Location: Center of the universe
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[quote=adirondackguy123;16338172]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
I

Yes, most Latin Americans are biracial (mulatto or mestizo) or triracial. There is no disputing that. Most Latin Americans, however, are not white. This is especially true in Cuba.


Quote:
Not entirley true, there are many white latin americans, they make up the second largest group of people after mestizos (indian-white).
Maybe so. But the white numbers are skewed somewhat by the mostly white southern cone (Argentina, Uruguay, Chile). In the other countries, especially the ones from where most Latinos in America come, whites are far from a majority.

Quote:
Yes most Cubans in America are white but whites still make up a large portion of Cuba too, about 37%.
Large portion, but not a majority.
 
Old 10-20-2010, 10:40 PM
 
871 posts, read 1,624,858 times
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latin/hispanic/spanish food is absolutely delicious(not mexican). i think it's tastier than italian.
 
Old 10-20-2010, 10:50 PM
 
Location: Center of the universe
24,645 posts, read 38,529,257 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rory00 View Post
latin/hispanic/spanish food is absolutely delicious(not mexican). i think it's tastier than italian.

If Mexican food is not included in your Latin/Hispanic/Spanish categorization, what is?
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