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Old 06-13-2009, 06:00 AM
 
23 posts, read 74,991 times
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I know that this topic was on like 100 times. But I must ask- what do you think where is better life quality in general? And do keep in mind that this questions refers to -where is better life quality NOW in the year 2009. No where people emigrated 40 years ago. And whan I say USA vs EU -under eu i mean european union + other non eu but similar to eu countries (iceland, norway.....).
So I agree that USA was and still is power- but is usa strong enough like 20-30 yrs ago and it is not fair to compare any country from europe to usa- if you do - please compair Union vs usa.

 
Old 06-13-2009, 06:45 AM
 
Location: Brno, Czech Republic
69 posts, read 335,102 times
Reputation: 39
Europe is not a homogenous place so that these general comparisons are rather missing the point. I know there are big differences in the United States too, but honestly, what do you mean by "Europe"? Countries like Latvia are worlds apart from the Netherlands or Scandinavia.
When you take into account only the most developed Western and Northern European countries (i.e. Benelux, France, former Western Germany, Switzerland, northern Italy, Spain, U.K., Austria and Scandinavia) and compare them with the U.S. in terms of QOL, you will most likely come to see that European societies offer better and more affordable public services (education, health care, social security, mass transportation etc.). At the same time, citizens in these countries pay higher taxes.
Hence, much like in Canada, you're better off in Europe compared to the U.S. if your income is about average or below average while the wealthy people enjoy more "economic freedom" in the United States and thus may consider their quality of living higher.
 
Old 06-13-2009, 07:07 AM
 
2 posts, read 1,848 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexor View Post
Europe is not a homogenous place so that these general comparisons are rather missing the point. I know there are big differences in the United States too, but honestly, what do you mean by "Europe"? Countries like Latvia are worlds apart from the Netherlands or Scandinavia.
When you take into account only the most developed Western and Northern European countries (i.e. Benelux, France, former Western Germany, Switzerland, northern Italy, Spain, U.K., Austria and Scandinavia) and compare them with the U.S. in terms of QOL, you will most likely come to see that European societies offer better and more affordable public services (education, health care, social security, mass transportation etc.). At the same time, citizens in these countries pay higher taxes.
Hence, much like in Canada, you're better off in Europe compared to the U.S. if your income is about average or below average while the wealthy people enjoy more "economic freedom" in the United States and thus may consider their quality of living higher.

I agree
You're better off in US if you're rich.Europe is better for all other ( 80/90% of people)....
 
Old 06-13-2009, 07:28 AM
ako
 
Location: Hopefully not here.
140 posts, read 336,272 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexor View Post
Hence, much like in Canada, you're better off in Europe compared to the U.S. if your income is about average or below average while the wealthy people enjoy more "economic freedom" in the United States and thus may consider their quality of living higher.
Really? I always thought it was the other way around.

Then again I haven't been to many EU countries so I'm probably wrong.
 
Old 06-13-2009, 08:13 AM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
9,295 posts, read 14,181,407 times
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I agree with posters 2 and 3, observing that the quality of life is better in the US if you own your own business and you derive the most satisfaction from that, main reason being rates of taxation and, in general, more economic autonomy and opportunity for the individual.

The quality of life is better in the EU in most other respects, and notably the health care system and public transport, not to mention intellectual and cultural life.

Having said that, as some else has pointed out, there are significant differences across EU countries. For example, Slovakia and Estonia, I believe, and even Russia, have low rates of taxation, but they do not measure well against the US in terms of opportunity and probably also not in terms of economic autonomy for the individual.

I am referring to the small/medium-sized business entrepreneur, not a bigwig in a corporation or other society-shaping organizational entity like mafia, church, and government.
 
Old 06-13-2009, 08:20 AM
 
23 posts, read 74,991 times
Reputation: 10
well i also think that is the other way around. I lived in USA and in EU- one of my parent is american other from europe.
Why do you think that life for people that are not that rich is better in europe and why is being rich better in usa.
generally eu is more expensive ( here i think of food, bills, real estates, taxes).
What economic freedom are you talking about? And what do you think when you talk about being rich (how much monay per year would that person have to earn to be rich in your opinion)
 
Old 06-13-2009, 08:25 AM
 
Location: North Carolina
10,194 posts, read 17,729,493 times
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Well, for me, the cost of living in much higher where I live in the UK than where I lived in the US. From that point of view, I would have a better quality of life if I moved back.
 
Old 06-13-2009, 08:41 AM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
9,295 posts, read 14,181,407 times
Reputation: 10013
Quote:
Originally Posted by chelsy35 View Post
Well I also think that is the other way around. I lived in USA and in EU - one of my parents is American other from Europe.

... What do you think when you talk about being rich (how much money per year would that person have to earn to be rich in your opinion)? Why do you think that life for people who are not that rich is better in Europe and why is being rich better in US?

What economic freedom are you talking about?

You must distinguish between wealth (rich) and income (annual earnings from a job, profession, business, or other). There is not necessarily any link between wealth and income: though a high income can lead to wealth accumulation, that is not always the case.

I would define someone as wealthy who can live a comfortable lifestyle supported by passive income, i.e. interest and dividends from accumulated wealth, however acquired.

On that basis, there is necessarily no difference in the quality of life for a wealthy person between the EU and US.

As for the second question, the US system provides active income generators with more opportunities to make and keep more of their own income and to do more of what they want with it, including accumulating wealth.

Try setting up a small business in a country like Italy, for example, starting from little or no wealth and see what happens: long story short, they asphyxiate you to death with bureaucracy and taxes before you generate one euro of profit.

Don't talk about it, try actually doing it.


Now, then, once you have accumulated wealth, take your pick.

But if you need to work to earn it, you have a better chance in the US.

That doesn't mean that you will fail in Europe or succeed in the US, but the latter offers better chances.

If you have no particular ambition to generate a high income and accumulate wealth, then the EU probably offers a less stressful and therefore better quality of life, going to the doctor and riding on trains, among other things.

Last edited by bale002; 06-13-2009 at 08:56 AM..
 
Old 06-13-2009, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Bergen, Norway
221 posts, read 533,477 times
Reputation: 140
Well, EU has the bigger economy..

.. But seeing as EU has allowed all those poor eastern european countries to join in, the GDP per capita is lower in EU than in the US. Still, most of western EU is much wealthier and thus "better" than the US.

And by EU the topic creator means the countries of the EUROPEAN UNION + Norway, Iceland and Switzerland, am I right?

If you live in pretty much any western european country, your standard of life will be higher than in the US (some countries, like the Scandinavian ones, have a general income that is close to 30% higher than the one of the US)

List of countries by Human Development Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On that list I can count 11 Western EU countries that have a better HDI than the US, and only 6 with lower.

But its true that they tax you to death, so if youre gonna start a business - stay in the US. If you´re just any other person trying to get by - EU is far better for you.
 
Old 06-13-2009, 09:36 AM
 
Location: Brno, Czech Republic
69 posts, read 335,102 times
Reputation: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by chelsy35 View Post
Why do you think that life for people that are not that rich is better in europe and why is being rich better in usa.
I have never lived in the United States but from what I know, many of the crucial things that make one's life better are simply much more affordable for lower/middle class people in Western and Northern Europe. Health care and education being prime examples. Tuition at Sorbonne is about 200 Euro a year. You don't have to send your child to a pricey high school in order to enhance her chances to get to a top university.You don't have to care about health care costs if you are French. (And they will certainly not lead you to personal bankruptcy anywhere in the Old 15 EU countries.)
IMO the rule of thumb is pretty simple and it applies worldwide: higher taxes + more robust public services = better for people who are not wealthy enough to go private in ensuring quality education, health care etc.; lower taxes + modest welfare state = better for the rich.

Quote:
What economic freedom are you talking about?
In my beloved neoliberal newspeak, economic freedom means low taxes/tax incentives for the highest income groups and big companies, "flexible" labor market (weak unions in other words) and generally loose market regulation.
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