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Old 08-25-2014, 05:23 PM
 
Location: Iowa, Heartland of Murica
3,425 posts, read 6,319,298 times
Reputation: 3446

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It is unbelievable how uneducated most Europeans are about guns. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that most will never get to see or shoot a gun in their lives.

I can't think of any person who shot a gun for the first time and later became an anti-gun person. I have converted a lot of hardcore anti-gun people who had never shot a gun in their lives and after they shoot a gun for the first time, they almost always change their opinion on guns.

Banning guns in the USA would be the dumbest idea EVER. Why? Because it means that most law abiding citizens would not be able to defend their families and property legally. It also means that criminals would be the only ones with access to guns.

The American approach to gun ownership is much more realistic than this European Politically Correct BS fantasy, "no one needs a gun" approach.

There is a lot of bad, evil, ****ed up people out there and if it comes to a situation when it is going to be either me, my family or them, you better believe it is gonna be THEM.

Even in the most primitive societies, the right to bear arms and defend your territory, family and village has always been part of the human experience- it is one of the most basic human rights and it is a God given or a Nature given right if you are an atheist, not a Government given right.

It is not up to some stupid Paternalistic, nanny Government to decide if a person should or should not have a gun. Wake up, people!
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Old 08-25-2014, 05:30 PM
 
Location: Leeds, UK
22,112 posts, read 29,645,999 times
Reputation: 8825
Keep trying - I'm sure you'll convince someone eventually.
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Old 08-25-2014, 05:35 PM
 
Location: Sweden
1,446 posts, read 1,959,735 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Repubocrat View Post
There is a lot of bad, evil, ****ed up people out there
A bit too many in America
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Old 08-25-2014, 08:48 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
18,504 posts, read 15,619,779 times
Reputation: 11937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Repubocrat View Post
It is unbelievable how uneducated most Europeans are about guns. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that most will never get to see or shoot a gun in their lives.

I can't think of any person who shot a gun for the first time and later became an anti-gun person. I have converted a lot of hardcore anti-gun people who had never shot a gun in their lives and after they shoot a gun for the first time, they almost always change their opinion on guns.

Unless the person accidentally shot someone in their home…then maybe not so much.
The issue most of us have is not so much trained gun owners, but the LACK of a federal laws that is as stringent as what other countries have. You guys have too many guns floating around that don't have to be in lock boxes etc.


Banning guns in the USA would be the dumbest idea EVER. Why? Because it means that most law abiding citizens would not be able to defend their families and property legally. It also means that criminals would be the only ones with access to guns.

I haven't heard anyone say that you have to ban guns. However I feel it's really is too late for the US. You have so many weapons that are accessible to nut cases and crooks, that any type of new gun laws regardless how strict would take generations to have an effect.


The American approach to gun ownership is much more realistic than this European Politically Correct BS fantasy, "no one needs a gun" approach.

Fantasy? Well many in Europe and may I say Canada, feel that we don't need guns. By that I mean handguns. The fact that you feel you do to protect yourself means exactly what I said in another post. A failed society.


There is a lot of bad, evil, ****ed up people out there and if it comes to a situation when it is going to be either me, my family or them, you better believe it is gonna be THEM.

Well in your case I wish you no harm and hopefully you do get " the bad guys " …but sometimes it doesn't work out that way.

Even in the most primitive societies, the right to bear arms and defend your territory, family and village has always been part of the human experience- it is one of the most basic human rights and it is a God given or a Nature given right if you are an atheist, not a Government given right.

Ya see, other countries see defending yourself as a right, we just don't see the right to use a gun as a right. Just like not everyone can get a drivers license.
As for primitive societies which seems more primitive? The one where everyone must carry clubs to defend and protect, or the one where clubs are not common because the society has progressed beyond such primitive ideas.


It is not up to some stupid Paternalistic, nanny Government to decide if a person should or should not have a gun. Wake up, people!
Nanny. Nanny state etc. The buzzwords or the extreme right. In some countries people actually still have some faith their gov't is doing what they feel is for the common good. In Canada if the gun laws were to change to the point that you see in the US, people would be in the streets wondering what crazy nut would want to flood the country with more guns.
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Old 08-25-2014, 10:56 PM
 
Location: Colorado
1,523 posts, read 2,870,456 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
Nanny. Nanny state etc. The buzzwords or the extreme right. In some countries people actually still have some faith their gov't is doing what they feel is for the common good. In Canada if the gun laws were to change to the point that you see in the US, people would be in the streets wondering what crazy nut would want to flood the country with more guns.
I'm not pro-guns at all, but you have a very skwed image of Canadian gun laws as well as the situation in the US. Canadian laws are not particularly harsh on gun owners at all, and even still they hardly count for lower violence in Canada. Canada simply has different demographics, namely it does not have a problem with black/latino gangs, and shares no border with Mexico. Banning guns or taking them from responsible citizens isn't an appealing solution when many of our most notorious gangs have ties to Latin America and can simply order new equipment. In Washington DC and Chicago gun laws are very strict but criminals still get them. And when we make guns illegal, there will always be a guy who will profit bringing guns from south of the border. Just like cocaine is illegal but its illegality makes it more valuable and people traffic it for the money. This doesn't even touch the demographic issues.

Canada's most dangerous province or territory is Nunavut, which has a higher murder rate than any US state. Why? Because the population is mostly Native Canadian and part of a non-white have-not minority. Had Canada not sold her black slaves "down the river" when ending slavery (literally where the phrase "sold down the river comes from") and had it not encouraged most loyalist blacks to "go back to Africa" then it would probably would have the same issues as the US. The US and many Latin American countries tried to form societies where the slaveowners and former slaves had to live together - European countries and Canada conveniently ridded themselves of their black slave populations once they were no longer needed. The UK for instance, is a separate country from Jamaica (her ex slaves) and Holland is separate from Suriname. In Canada populations descended from slaves (Nova Scotia) have the same issues, and so do the populations of natives (like in Nunavut and Winnipeg).

It is the problems in these communities that need to be addressed at least if not more than any gun problem. If you compare murder rates among white Americans it is similar to European countries. It doesn't make much sense to take guns from a Minnesota farmer when a gangster in Minneapolis is the one using it illegally and for wrongdoing. If it was as simple as taking the guns from everyone, I would be all for it, but those gangsters will still have guns illegally. Like I said, I'm not pro-gun at all, but it isn't nearly as black-and-white as your are making it out to be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
I'm not a big gun rights supporter, so I see little to defend the US on that nor admit anything. I do thinking foreigners exagerrate the impact of loose gun laws — a large portion of gun crime is from criminals that ignore gun laws anyway, many places in the country with legal guns have little gun crime (for example, nearby Vermont has almost no gun laws). The horror stories of mass shootings are horrible but in the grand scheme of things are only small portion of the nation's murders.
Yes exactly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunno what to put here View Post
I mean, I've been told that getting access to mental healthcare is harder than getting a gun.
No, that is patently false.
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Old 08-26-2014, 03:11 AM
 
Location: Sweden
1,446 posts, read 1,959,735 times
Reputation: 395
Can we just agree the gun right in the USA doesn't work.
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Old 08-26-2014, 05:22 AM
 
2,341 posts, read 2,945,629 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbesdj View Post
Banning guns or taking them from responsible citizens isn't an appealing solution when many of our most notorious gangs have ties to Latin America and can simply order new equipment.
There is still the issue of high school shootings and two year olds shooting their siblings with their grandfather's unattended weapons which happen on a very regular basis in the US, all with legal weapons. Guns should be banned except for those who need them to defend themselves like shopkeepers. In addition, a part of the legal guns get stolen or lost and turn into illegal guns.

I wouldn't have expected so much pro gun rhetoric from somebody originating from Baltimore like yourself hobbes. Baltimore being one of the most troubled cities as far as gun violence is concerned: 'To reduce Baltimore's gun violence, invest in strategies that work'.
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Old 08-26-2014, 06:06 AM
 
Location: Finland
24,128 posts, read 24,872,859 times
Reputation: 11103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Repubocrat View Post
It is unbelievable how uneducated most Europeans are about guns. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that most will never get to see or shoot a gun in their lives.

I can't think of any person who shot a gun for the first time and later became an anti-gun person. I have converted a lot of hardcore anti-gun people who had never shot a gun in their lives and after they shoot a gun for the first time, they almost always change their opinion on guns.
I've fired 9mm pistols, 12.7mm AAMG's, a bogus 66mm M72 LAW, threwn live hand grenades, blown mines, and shot thousands of rounds with a 7.62mm assault rifle. It was boring, except for the 12.7mm. I've seen a 94mm APILAS AT-rocket fired and watched live artillery fire. I can still dissassemble and assemble the assault rifle in 20 seconds, I know it by heart. I've also seen what damage weapons do and what gunshot wounds look like.

I'm anti gun.
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Old 08-26-2014, 06:57 AM
 
Location: Iowa, Heartland of Murica
3,425 posts, read 6,319,298 times
Reputation: 3446
Quote:
Originally Posted by drro View Post
I wouldn't have expected so much pro gun rhetoric from somebody originating from Baltimore like yourself hobbes. Baltimore being one of the most troubled cities as far as gun violence is concerned: 'To reduce Baltimore's gun violence, invest in strategies that work'.
OMG! Have you ever been to Baltimore? I have several times and most of the gun violence that happens in Baltimore is committed by African American young criminals with illegal handguns.

Trust me, even if Baltimore banned guns, it would have no impact on crime because these thugs would still get guns illegally one way or the other.

Like it is happening in Detroit, the only way to stop crime and violence in Baltimore would be more armed law abiding citizens.
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Old 08-26-2014, 07:43 AM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,588 posts, read 27,447,965 times
Reputation: 9059
Guns don't kill people. By a strange coincidence, people without guns are more unlikely to kill people either.
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