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Old 03-15-2010, 10:45 AM
 
1,954 posts, read 5,000,812 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElectroPlumber View Post
This is an interesting thread.

Also interesting is that all of a sudden, I'm seeing a lot of interest among Americans to move somewhere else in the World. Although there has always been folks doing it, the situation here has gotten to the point that a growing swell of people are thinking about leaving.

I'm doing it too because the opportunity for older people who are not yet at retirement age has dried up. There are also other segments of the population (new college grads, etc.) that have been discarded in the new way that the economy operates. And stagnation and polarization in the political process is really a big part of it too.
I would say the economy has been and will continue to be part of the reason for this trend. I'm lucky enough to be able to live in the U.S. right now and maintain an international client base, although if I'm to really grow, it will probably require a move on my part. I've built my career in such a way that making money in the U.S. is very difficult without completely changing direction, which would cause me to do something I'm not really interested in doing as well as incur a lot of direct and opportunity costs.

If you look at history, people left America during the Depression as well - for the Soviet Union, among other places. Not huge numbers, but signficant.

This time, I fear it's going to be a while before the U.S. gets back on its feet economically, at least in a way that requires a massive expansion of payrolls. So what's going to happen is either widespread entrepreneurship (unlikely in the current political and regulatory climate) or increased emigration.

The U.S. is not the land of opportunity at the moment. The American dream, at least for the time being, is dead.
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Old 03-15-2010, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Espoo, Finland
26 posts, read 73,659 times
Reputation: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by MitchArk87 View Post
Many people said that when you move oversea, you have to start over completely with new furnitures, new pets, and everything since you can't take what you have here to there. I am having a hard time believing that. Is that true at all?
You might want to think twice about bringing furniture from the US, in many countries, average living space is smaller. For example, if you have a king size bed, it would probably take up way too much space. Also, European bed sizes are different, so you'd never be able to buy the right kind of bedding, etc.
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Old 03-15-2010, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Espoo, Finland
26 posts, read 73,659 times
Reputation: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattypatty View Post
If it is so difficult to immigrate to England, then why are there so many unskilled, uneducated Muslims there from ME countries?

I'm confused.
Refugees, then the refugees bring their families....

Also, if people are from India, Pakistan, or Bangladesh, is/was it easier for them to move to UK?
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Old 03-15-2010, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Pirkanmaa, Finland
121 posts, read 324,555 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Papuja View Post
Refugees, then the refugees bring their families....

Also, if people are from India, Pakistan, or Bangladesh, is/was it easier for them to move to UK?
Refugees have had a small impact. Most of the UK immigrants of an IndoPak background have ties that go back to the 1950s, when immigrants from "the colonies" came to work in the mills. That's why such a high proportion live in Lancashire, N. Yorks, etc.
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Old 03-15-2010, 01:02 PM
 
Location: Espoo, Finland
26 posts, read 73,659 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnochTheSleestak View Post
Refugees have had a small impact. Most of the UK immigrants of an IndoPak background have ties that go back to the 1950s, when immigrants from "the colonies" came to work in the mills. That's why such a high proportion live in Lancashire, N. Yorks, etc.
Yeah I thought there was a reason like that.

I saw your status, what's your connection with the Finnish language? If you didn't notice, I live in Finland.
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Old 03-15-2010, 01:09 PM
 
Location: Pirkanmaa, Finland
121 posts, read 324,555 times
Reputation: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papuja View Post
I saw your status, what's your connection with the Finnish language? If you didn't notice, I live in Finland.
Me too. I live near Vammala/Sastamala, hence the tagline.
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Old 03-20-2010, 09:24 PM
 
9,840 posts, read 20,957,364 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StoneOne View Post
I would say the economy has been and will continue to be part of the reason for this trend. I'm lucky enough to be able to live in the U.S. right now and maintain an international client base, although if I'm to really grow, it will probably require a move on my part. I've built my career in such a way that making money in the U.S. is very difficult without completely changing direction, which would cause me to do something I'm not really interested in doing as well as incur a lot of direct and opportunity costs.

If you look at history, people left America during the Depression as well - for the Soviet Union, among other places. Not huge numbers, but signficant.

This time, I fear it's going to be a while before the U.S. gets back on its feet economically, at least in a way that requires a massive expansion of payrolls. So what's going to happen is either widespread entrepreneurship (unlikely in the current political and regulatory climate) or increased emigration.

The U.S. is not the land of opportunity at the moment. The American dream, at least for the time being, is dead.
I have ties across the world and based on everything I know, it's not any better elsewhere. The whole world has the same financial problems and in many cases are really worse off than the USA.

I think the dream is dead only if people want it to be and think that a government bureaucratic controlled life and trading their liberty for freedom is the way forward.

But surely we can individually seek out opportunity around the world. I'd certainly consider working overseas and it will probably happen at some point. If globalization is here, might as well use it to our ends as well.
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Old 03-21-2010, 08:36 AM
 
1,954 posts, read 5,000,812 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
I have ties across the world and based on everything I know, it's not any better elsewhere. The whole world has the same financial problems and in many cases are really worse off than the USA.

I think the dream is dead only if people want it to be and think that a government bureaucratic controlled life and trading their liberty for freedom is the way forward.

But surely we can individually seek out opportunity around the world. I'd certainly consider working overseas and it will probably happen at some point. If globalization is here, might as well use it to our ends as well.
I didn't really mean to imply that things are definitely better elsewhere across the board, but for people who have certain skill sets, there's a lot more opportunity to be had abroad right now than in the U.S. Finance, for example, seems to strike me as presenting greater opportunity in much of Asia than in the U.S. at the moment.

As for the American dream, although I said it's dead, it's by no means "gone" so to speak. But it's not going to come back in the traditional narrative of "work hard, get a good education, get a good job, buy a nice house in the burbs and do better in life than your parents."

It will take quite some doing for me to do better than my parents financially. I suppose I'm living my own American dream in that while I'm not as well off financially as my parents were at my age, I am immeasurably more world-wise and experienced than they were. I also have my own business that gives me way more freedom than they could ever have imagined - freedom to set my own schedule, uproot and travel whenever I want (my clients are all remotely based) and freedom to explore vastly different business opportunities and constantly reinvent myself as needed.

I agree that the only American dream that's going to exist going forward is one that's highly individualized and doesn't try to compete with what one's friends, neighbors or family members are doing.
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Old 03-21-2010, 11:09 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Downtown Rancho Cordova, CA
491 posts, read 1,174,343 times
Reputation: 401
Quote:
Originally Posted by StoneOne View Post
I didn't really mean to imply that things are definitely better elsewhere across the board, but for people who have certain skill sets, there's a lot more opportunity to be had abroad right now than in the U.S. Finance, for example, seems to strike me as presenting greater opportunity in much of Asia than in the U.S. at the moment.

As for the American dream, although I said it's dead, it's by no means "gone" so to speak. But it's not going to come back in the traditional narrative of "work hard, get a good education, get a good job, buy a nice house in the burbs and do better in life than your parents."

It will take quite some doing for me to do better than my parents financially. I suppose I'm living my own American dream in that while I'm not as well off financially as my parents were at my age, I am immeasurably more world-wise and experienced than they were. I also have my own business that gives me way more freedom than they could ever have imagined - freedom to set my own schedule, uproot and travel whenever I want (my clients are all remotely based) and freedom to explore vastly different business opportunities and constantly reinvent myself as needed.

I agree that the only American dream that's going to exist going forward is one that's highly individualized and doesn't try to compete with what one's friends, neighbors or family members are doing.
The American dream will only exist in the future for those who can make it up into the upper class. There is an accelerating trend in this country towards a two-tier class structure: the elite and the working lower classes. The middle-class will, for the most part, be gone within 20 years.

I'm not trying to be melodramatic, just factual. It's a combination of globalization and the lack of real political representation of the non-elitist classes.

I've never lived in Europe, but I've been told that it's been this way there in many countries for a long time. So, it looks like we will join the status quo.
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Old 03-25-2010, 05:17 AM
 
242 posts, read 701,952 times
Reputation: 194
For the short term, and with a college degree and not a lot of experience in a field, I'd say Japan, Korea, China, and Thailand, teaching English. Japan is the safest choice, the others I hear complaints from ESL teachers all the time. However, very few Japanese understand English, perhaps the least in developed Asia.

Best bet for countries like the US with many English speakers would be Canada and Australia. Canada if you want to be closer to family/friends, Australia if you want better weather.

In Europe, perhaps the northern European countries, but you will definitely need a plan. I personally think Sweden is the best bet overall. It may be easier in eastern European countries, perhaps teaching English, but many are not doing well economically and have crime, drug, and gang problems. Teaching English in France may be an option as well, but I hear you have to fight quite hard to find other work as they almost always favor French citizens and you need to be fluent in French.
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