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Old 07-07-2010, 11:32 AM
 
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Armenia - Surrounded mostly by Muslim states, including Turkey to its south and Iran to its S.East. Yet it is 99% Christian. It sticks out like a sore thumb.
Albania - Muslim majority state in Europe, a legacy of Turkish colonialism.
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Old 07-07-2010, 03:14 PM
 
Location: Somewhere on the Moon.
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Originally Posted by MimzyMusic View Post
What are some countries that are very different from their neighbors? One I can think of is Haiti - an African country stuck in the western hemisphere.
Haiti is unique for more than just its racial composition, its economic, political, and cultural realities are definitely one of a kind, sometimes for the wrong reasons. It is the only country in the Americas that resembles a sub-Saharan African country in its entirety (life expectancy, economy, etc).

I would also add its neighbor, the Dominican Republic, as a country that is out-of-place, since its the only country with a mulatto majority, one of the few countries in the world with that reality. The fact that it borders Haiti, a country with a majority of people of pure African stock, makes the mixture of most Dominicans quite obvious to the casual observer since most Dominicans don't look like most Haitians. The difference in development levels between the two countries is also interesting.
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Old 07-07-2010, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Somewhere on the Moon.
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Originally Posted by swiss90 View Post
brazil is more black then European..cuz 50% are black..and what they call white today is more like hispanic then white..
That's not what the CIA World Factbook shows:

white 53.7%
mulatto (mixed white and black) 38.5%
black 6.2%
other (includes Japanese, Arab, Amerindian) 0.9%
unspecified 0.7% (2000 census)

I don't know where you get that they are more "hispanic" white than white, what exactly is "hispanic"?

Plus, based on what I have seen in southern Brazil, they are as white as whites anywhere else. No difference from their Portuguese, Italian and Spanish counterparts in Europe.

In case its of any importance, I'm not Brazilian.
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Old 07-07-2010, 07:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Antonio84 View Post
That's not what the CIA World Factbook shows:

white 53.7%
mulatto (mixed white and black) 38.5%
black 6.2%
other (includes Japanese, Arab, Amerindian) 0.9%
unspecified 0.7% (2000 census)

I don't know where you get that they are more "hispanic" white than white, what exactly is "hispanic"?

Plus, based on what I have seen in southern Brazil, they are as white as whites anywhere else. No difference from their Portuguese, Italian and Spanish counterparts in Europe.

In case its of any importance, I'm not Brazilian.

Id say its another case of a Latin American country playing with the numbers [like Cuba and Puerto rico do]...Brazil has way more than 6% of its population as black for one. It has the highest number of black people in the world, besides Nigeria. And the mixed race population is huge. There are plenty of white people in Brazil, but I really doubt its a majority...Unless you count some of the mixed race population as white, which Brazil may be doing to get that high percent for white people [again, like Cuba and Puerto rico do].
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Old 07-08-2010, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Somewhere on the Moon.
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Originally Posted by jonaos View Post
Id say its another case of a Latin American country playing with the numbers [like Cuba and Puerto rico do]...Brazil has way more than 6% of its population as black for one. It has the highest number of black people in the world, besides Nigeria. And the mixed race population is huge. There are plenty of white people in Brazil, but I really doubt its a majority...Unless you count some of the mixed race population as white, which Brazil may be doing to get that high percent for white people [again, like Cuba and Puerto rico do].
First and foremost, this is my last post regarding this topic due to not being the topic of the thread.

I don't know how anyone can ignore census data and say he/she knows that there are more of this or more of that. How can one possibly know? Not by simply looking around since Brazil's (and most countries) population is not evenly distributed. From a spatial point-of-view most of the population lives along the coast while the interior is remarkably empty. If one was to judge Brazil's density by one's surroundings, its safe to assume that a person in coastal Brazil will guess that Brazil's density is greater than it actually is while someone in the interior will underestimate it. Much in the same way, Brazil's racial and ethnic composition is not evenly distributed which makes it hard for anyone to accurately guess what the composition is by simply looking around (and Americans have a hard time identifying most mixed race people since in the U.S. many mixed race people are seen as belonging to one non-mixed race and this has psychologically conditioned Americans to not see, for example, a black/white mixed person even when for everyone else its obvious). Except for a few cities in the north that are predominantly black (real blacks, not mixed people claiming to be black) and a few cities in the south that are white (real whites, not mixed people claiming to be white), in most places there is a very strong mixture of white, black and mixed people that is not seen in most places of the U.S.

This is why one must use tools like census data to understand the reality of a country, in this case the racial composition; because its nearly impossible to accurately guess this by simply looking around in a society that is not evenly populated. Now, it's true that in Brazil when people speak of skin color, they actually mean skin color; it's not like in the U.S. where people speak of skin color but they actually mean features. So, of course there are some people that in Brazil are considered white because their skin color falls within what one would call white, while in the U.S. such person might not be considered white because his/her features might show some admixture, even if the skin color of the person falls within the white spectrum and even if the features are more Caucasian than non-Caucasian (interestingly Americans have no problem claiming a mixed person black if his/her features even slightly shows some black admixture but when it comes to calling someone white they often stress purity and identifying as mixed is still for the most part not even acceptable and will result in ridicule. It's a very weird double standard).

Due to such differences one needs to take racial/color census data on a "at the very most" basis, meaning that at most Brazil's population is over 50% white, since half the population has a skin color that falls within the white spectrum. In the U.S., despite the color line and the one-drop-rule and all the other mechanisms used to keep the white race as pure as possible and discriminate against as many non-whites and "contaminated" whites as possible, there too the percentage of white (and definitely black) people in the census is higher than what the American definition of white would allow. I personally know plenty of people that know they have Native American blood in them, and yet they identify as white. Why should they keep identifying as white when they know they are mixed? And let's not even go the African-American route, a community that mixture is obvious in so many of them that one wonders just how small is the true black community as oppose to mixed Americans claiming to be black.

God knows how many mixed Americans are claiming to be something they technically are not, and this brings to the table one often overlooked fact; the US is not as white or as black as it claims in its census data either. And this is in a country that claims to go by color when in reality it goes by features and yet, the U.S. is not very good at identifying mixed features which is why the one-drop-rule works well in the U.S. and not so much outside of the U.S.

For this reason I say let's go by what the census data says because technically, all countries including the U.S. are playing with their numbers.

Here is what I published in the Puerto Rico forum quite a few days ago: https://www.city-data.com/forum/14875014-post16.html

Last edited by AntonioR; 07-08-2010 at 10:09 AM..
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Old 07-08-2010, 11:41 AM
 
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You make some good points about Brazil, and your right for the most part about how they judge race. My issue mainly is the under-reporting of they're black population...But really that is not the fault of Brazil's census. In Brazil, though its slowly changing, being black places people on the bottom of the social/economic ladder. So if asked what you are im sure mixed race or white is a better answer than black, for a black person who wants to have the best chance of success.
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Old 07-08-2010, 11:54 AM
 
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The Vatican. Tame. Mellow. Somber. Sober. Unchanging. Law-abiding. Spiritual. Men wear frocks. Women wear habits. Not exactly like its closest neighbor, Italy.
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Old 07-08-2010, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Elgin, Illinois
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Originally Posted by moskiter View Post
And Australia, New Zealand, Uruguay, Argenitna, Brazil, Chile and some South Africa (only 11%). But generally all whites outside Europe are of European origin.
I don't think Chile belongs on this list, CIA world fact book does not specify how many white people there are in Chile. All it says is white and white amerindian (isn't that mestizo?) 95%. They have clumped the white and mestizo population into one. However, on wikipedia is says that Chile has 57% mestizo population (it's closer to Columbia's 58% and Mexico's 60% than Argentina and Uruguay who have less than 10% mestizos).
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Old 07-08-2010, 02:07 PM
 
Location: Somewhere on the Moon.
10,159 posts, read 15,040,014 times
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Originally Posted by jonaos View Post
You make some good points about Brazil, and your right for the most part about how they judge race. My issue mainly is the under-reporting of they're black population...But really that is not the fault of Brazil's census. In Brazil, though its slowly changing, being black places people on the bottom of the social/economic ladder. So if asked
what you are im sure mixed race or white is a better answer than black, for a black person who wants to have the best chance of success.
To quickly respond, that's an interesting comment.

I wonder what effect does the anonymity of the census data collection process affects people's perception of themselves. It's one thing to check a box in a job application and it's another thing to check a box for a data set that doesn't even takes your personal identity into consideration and will have little to no effect on the social standing or career opportunities of the individual. Plus, if its someone else categorizing the individual being taken into account in the census, then the economic/career aspirations of the subject has little relevance on his/her racial classification in the census. In the cases where the census data was collected by people employed by the bureau in charge of collecting such information, then it doesn't really depends on the individual but rather on the observer to place the person in a category based on physical appearance and whether there are signs of mixture or not. The desires of the individual being categorized, in such process would have little to no impact on the results since they are not taken into consideration.

Last edited by AntonioR; 07-08-2010 at 02:17 PM..
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Old 07-08-2010, 06:05 PM
 
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I say Brazil.....is just amazing to me that they have been able to maintain their culture despite being surrounded by Spain-conquered countries. By the way, Brazil runs the gamut from european white to african black, and everything in between.
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