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I tutor a lot of high school kids at a large high school and since I'm a certified English teacher I often help them write papers. Our school is decent academically but is located in a gangster neighborhood and we often have to do a lot of catching them up. Still, that's no excuse for what I've been seeing lately. The kids all have to write an essay and the assignment specifically states that it has to be in MLA format so the teachers are all having them type it double spaced with indentations for each paragraph and with a break between each paragraph, which means that it's quadruple spaced at that point. My understanding has always been that you either do indentations or an extra space for a new paragraph but not both. I'm an old lady and I thought things might have changed so I went to speak to a teacher to see if that's the new way and one of the better teachers told me that he always has them do both and then he looked confused a moment and said, "I think. . . " I went and dug up a current MLA style manual and it said that for papers you always double space in 12 pt font and indent paragraphs but it said nothing about spaces between paragraphs and it showed a sample paper with no spaces.
So I'm right and all the teachers are wrong, or at least they shouldn't tell the kids they are writing in MLA format but I found out that they've been doing it this way for years. And what are the chances that the English teachers are going to listen to an assistant, even if I do have the manual to back me up. But that's not even what bothers me--it's that they've all accepted this without question.
Even if we skip the specific style guideline, it's obvious that using both methods of paragraph separation at the same time should seem... well, wrong! Or at least redundant.
I've always been told that it's very poor form, no matter the specific style guidelines used. Any college English/writing teacher would pounce on that with a red pen immediately.
I've always been told that it's very poor form, no matter the specific style guidelines used. Any college English/writing teacher would pounce on that with a red pen immediately.
Yes and that's what worries me--it's not that I need to be right but I'm concerned that our kids are learning it wrong. I'm not even sure if I'll bother letting the entire English dept know they've been doing it wrong but it bothers me that something like that would slip through in this age of ready information.
So I'm right and all the teachers are wrong, or at least they shouldn't tell the kids they are writing in MLA format but I found out that they've been doing it this way for years. And what are the chances that the English teachers are going to listen to an assistant, even if I do have the manual to back me up. But that's not even what bothers me--it's that they've all accepted this without question.
This is what comes from teaching “what” instead of “why.” Many people apply random rules picked up over the years without analyzing why those rules might exist or be useful.
There’s no permanent harm done. The worst that could happen is that a college admissions essay might look a little slipshod (which, depending on the selectivity of the college, is no small thing).
The students will be corrected as soon as they get to college. It’s much harder to get the faculty to admit that they were wrong for years. It still might be worth a try—if you can do it subtly and discreetly. It has the potential to humiliate the teachers in front of the students. You want to go slowly and test the waters first.
I don't think pointing out the error to the teachers is going to do much good. They've probably done it that way forever and aren't changing now. It may be good for the kids to get used to the idea that they have to tailor their papers to the specific teacher's requirements.
When I was in college, way back when , the English Department insisted on a certain style/format, and the History Department insisted on a totally different style/format . All the teachers had their own little quirks too. Sometimes you had to figure out those little quirks the hard way.
This is what comes from teaching “what” instead of “why.” Many people apply random rules picked up over the years without analyzing why those rules might exist or be useful.
There’s no permanent harm done. The worst that could happen is that a college admissions essay might look a little slipshod (which, depending on the selectivity of the college, is no small thing).
The students will be corrected as soon as they get to college. It’s much harder to get the faculty to admit that they were wrong for years. It still might be worth a try—if you can do it subtly and discreetly. It has the potential to humiliate the teachers in front of the students. You want to go slowly and test the waters first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PennyLane2
MLA = Modern Language Association
I don't think pointing out the error to the teachers is going to do much good. They've probably done it that way forever and aren't changing now. It may be good for the kids to get used to the idea that they have to tailor their papers to the specific teacher's requirements.
When I was in college, way back when , the English Department insisted on a certain style/format, and the History Department insisted on a totally different style/format . All the teachers had their own little quirks too. Sometimes you had to figure out those little quirks the hard way.
You guys are right of course--in the grand scheme of things this is small stuff but it does drive me crazy to see them teach wrong info--our kids are disadvantaged enough as it is. But I won't be making waves--maybe just a few small ripples. I have talked to a couple of the more sympathetic teachers and not all of them teach this.
Actually, the more harmful thing that alerted me to this is that one of my ELL (foreign) students came to me with her rough draft and I took the title and typed it into google and guess what was the first article that came up? You guessed it--the paper was completely plagiarized--it was really obvious. The teacher had marked it all up but was unaware that it was straight off the internet. I'm talking the little lady in hand tomorrow and she's going to write a paper! This teacher is one I always thought of as a good teacher but it's possible that she's completely overloaded with the budget shortfalls and all--at least that's what I want to think.
I don't think pointing out the error to the teachers is going to do much good. They've probably done it that way forever and aren't changing now. It may be good for the kids to get used to the idea that they have to tailor their papers to the specific teacher's requirements.
I was going to say that I totally agree with this but then I had the thought that the teachers shouldn't claim that they're requiring them to write in the MLA format.
I was going to say that I totally agree with this but then I had the thought that the teachers shouldn't claim that they're requiring them to write in the MLA format.
I agree with this. If I am a teacher in a classroom for ANY subject and I claim to teach a certain method or style, and I am not doing so, I need to be corrected. Can you imagine the consequences of that sort of thing happening in, say, a structural engineering class? True, maybe not nearly as critical here, but if a "teacher" is teaching something, then well... he/she/they should be teaching it properly. Anything worth doing is worth doing correctly.
Of course, even teachers make mistakes. It happens. But this is not an isolated mistake. It's ongoing misinformation.
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And what are the chances that the English teachers are going to listen to an assistant, even if I do have the manual to back me up. But that's not even what bothers me--it's that they've all accepted this without question.
, the English Department insisted on a certain style/format, and the History Department insisted on a totally different style/format 
