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Old 01-19-2022, 07:14 AM
 
Location: Ohio
575 posts, read 1,370,519 times
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There is probably a term for what I am asking, but I don't know what it is. If you know the word, please tell me!

I am going to ask this question in a convoluted way, because I'm afraid that being more explicit will be politically incorrect, no matter how I word it. For want of a better term, I am going to refer to it as "Clampett-izing." What it is, is a simplification of the pronunciation of words. The best-known example would be "aren't/ain't." Another is dropping the "g" at the end of "ing."

These are some words I've come up with.

brother/bubba
charivari/shivaree
creature/critter
don't know/dunno
going to/gonna
hollow/holler
pretty/purty
vermin/varmint
victuals/vittles

Yes, I am guilty of using some of these. I sometimes use "ain't" for emphasis as a joke, and I tend to cut off the final g when I am hurrying to say something. I say "gonna" all the time, although I know I shouldn't.
And I've used "critter" when I talk about the little animals my cat likes to watch. Not to mention that "Butcher Holler" sounds way more intriguing than "Butcher Hollow"!
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Old 01-19-2022, 09:14 PM
 
23,590 posts, read 70,367,145 times
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Those are generally regionalisms, idioms, and dialect. All are perfectly acceptable within the vulgate, even if they aren't the king's English.

Your fear is based in the idea that there is a "proper" English. That concept arose out of the classism of Victorian and Edwardian times, which allowed the gentry to look down on commoners for their use of language. In reality, the language is constantly evolving. Further, if you study the dialects and regionalisms in the U.K., they vary more than within the U.S.. Mancunian, Scouse, Geordie (to name just a few) veer much more from Oxford English than Appalachian dialects from Bostonian or "standard" English.
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Old 01-22-2022, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Maine
22,913 posts, read 28,253,485 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
Those are generally regionalisms, idioms, and dialect. All are perfectly acceptable within the vulgate, even if they aren't the king's English.

Your fear is based in the idea that there is a "proper" English. That concept arose out of the classism of Victorian and Edwardian times, which allowed the gentry to look down on commoners for their use of language. In reality, the language is constantly evolving. Further, if you study the dialects and regionalisms in the U.K., they vary more than within the U.S.. Mancunian, Scouse, Geordie (to name just a few) veer much more from Oxford English than Appalachian dialects from Bostonian or "standard" English.
Yup.

The purpose of spoken language is to be understood. From an anthropological perspective, grammar ought to be descriptive and not prescriptive (the way things are vs. the way things ought to be).

Not to say there aren't rules to grammar. There are. But the rules are defined by those speaking the language, not elitist grammarians. My English teachers used to love telling us, " ' Ain't' ain't a word!" Which is nonsense. Teacher, did you just say, "ain't?" Yes. Did everyone understand exactly what you meant? Yes. Then it's a word.

Harry Chickpea is spot-on correct. "Proper" English is more about classism than reality.
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Old 01-22-2022, 03:01 PM
 
Location: North America
4,430 posts, read 2,703,329 times
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laboratory/lab
gasoline/gas
perquisite/perk
examination/exam
violincello/cello
bicycle/bike
stereophony/stereo

Simplifying words by various means is quite normal in English.
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Old 01-22-2022, 04:12 PM
 
2,956 posts, read 1,637,449 times
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An Englishman told me Received Pronunciation (RP) was developed as Norman French, itself a regional dialect of French, slowly morphed into English. Members of the court tried to retain as much of the French pronunciation as possible. Et voila the King's English was born.

A teacher in English class pointed out us that English is a German language with an overlay of French, which is a combination of Gaelic and Latin.

The simplified words noted in the OP are used in the UK as well and is where they originated, based on rural and regional accents.

The Anglo Saxon tongue had trouble with French. As the languages merged pronunciation was approximated as heard. Also people couldn't read, they didn't know how words were spelled and spelling wasn't standardized anyway. It's how Mary-le-Bourne became Marlybone.

Then, much later, there was the transition to English for Irish, Scottish and Welsh speakers. Each lending their own quirks of pronunciation. Thankfully there has been a resurgence of speaking and teaching these ancient languages so they're not lost. I love seeing signs in Welsh and English in Wales and listening to local Welsh radio on BBC.

Brits cherish their regional accents even while making fun of them. Grads of RADA have to be able to pick them up for character roles. Michael Caine, himself a good East End lad, said he was so nervous about speaking RP for his role as an aristocrat officer in Zulu his voice came out so high and squeeky he had to do several takes before he could deliver the lines in normal voice.
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Old 01-22-2022, 07:48 PM
 
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OK, so let's take it further. Daniel Webster made a dictionary for people on the continent of North America that was intentionally different than the Oxford dictionary. I leave it to you to research why.
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Old 01-23-2022, 08:08 AM
 
Location: Dessert
10,888 posts, read 7,373,369 times
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Words for meat animals--pig, cow, hen, stag--are derived from the Anglo Saxon peasants, who dealt with living critters.
Words for meat--pork, beef, poultry, venison--are from Norman French, the nobs who were served the flesh of the animals.
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Old 01-23-2022, 04:05 PM
 
Location: Ohio
575 posts, read 1,370,519 times
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Default thank you

Thank you for all your explanations. I never knew most of your information before. Is there a technical term for the differences?
I thought of two more:
pumpkin/punkin
hundred/hunnert. This one's origins I know. It's based upon the German word for 100, which is hundert. My great-grandparents were Germans who moved to America, and I think that even my grandparents, who were born in the US, said "hunnert."
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Old 01-23-2022, 05:14 PM
 
2,956 posts, read 1,637,449 times
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Public Broadcasting had an excellent series on the English language The Story of English. I learned a lot from it at the time.

Books and Films - The Story of English (PBS documentary presented by Robert MacNeil).
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Old 01-23-2022, 09:16 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,515 posts, read 84,705,921 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
Yup.

The purpose of spoken language is to be understood. From an anthropological perspective, grammar ought to be descriptive and not prescriptive (the way things are vs. the way things ought to be).

Not to say there aren't rules to grammar. There are. But the rules are defined by those speaking the language, not elitist grammarians. My English teachers used to love telling us, " ' Ain't' ain't a word!" Which is nonsense. Teacher, did you just say, "ain't?" Yes. Did everyone understand exactly what you meant? Yes. Then it's a word.

Harry Chickpea is spot-on correct. "Proper" English is more about classism than reality.
Yup. There's no one "right" way to speak a language other than what those in power at a given time decided was proper.

I once read that "strenuous" was at one time considered slang.

I recently enjoyed watching the 1970s BBC series, All Creatures Great and Small, based on the books by James Herriot. One of the most enjoyable aspects of the series was the authentic Yorkshire dialect, which I understand is beginning to die out.

I've begun using it myself, saying things like "I've nowt to make for dinner, but I'll put sommat together".
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