Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I'm currently a graduate student at the University of Houston in Educational Psychology and working on an M.Ed. I hope to continue onwards to a PhD in School Psychology and/or Educational Psychology. Now, I've just begun my graduate studies, so this isn't anything immediately pressing; I would like to get some information about Wyoming and suggestions to get some idea of the current picture at least for when I do consider moving somewhere I'd really like in 6-10 years down the line.
What I'm looking for is a slightly isolated place to call home, but in a densely forested town area. That, to me, is key, and more important than just about anything else, except for a job which I'll get to a little later. I absolutely love trees and the feel of being in a forest, and I hear that at least some parts of Wyoming are like this. I hear that Cheyenne, Wyoming, your largest city, is a notable exception in that it's very flat and tree-less, basically a prairie. Prairies just aren't that visually appealing to me, honestly. I mentioned I'm at UH in Texas, so on that note, if I wanted to live in a prairie town I'd just save myself the trouble and stay somewhere around here. Texas has plenty of that.
Even in Texas there are some examples of towns that have what I'm looking for. The part of Texas known as the Hill Country is fairly nice, and San Antonio and Austin are among our nicer looking cities. Still, much as I love the big city, and I do, it's too crowded for me, and still not densely forested enough, in my opinion. I know I mentioned loving the big city, but I am aware that Wyoming is going to lack anything approaching that compared to most states, and that's fine. I'm honestly looking for a smallish place to get away from things. The Sam Houston National Forest area also comes to mind and has some towns approaching something I'm looking for. Huntsville is fairly nice, and Conrad and The Woodlands, northern suburbs of Houston, are very wooded indeed. At least the parts I've driven through. Nacogdoches up in the Piney Woods of Texas is another example of a pretty wooded place that I consider beautiful. We may not have mountains here, but to me, the forest-feel is the most important part, but the mountains would be a huge plus. Before I lived in Texas, I lived in New Mexico a long time ago. Just in the desert of Roswell, but I have taken trips to Ruidoso which is quite pretty, and has the look I'm going for, but it's too much of a tourist trap. It's been a long time since I've been there but I think Colorado has some of that as well, as does California. But both, especially California, are way too crowded for my tastes. The relative sparsity of Wyoming with only 500,000 residents or so from the last I heard, appeals a lot to me.
Hopefully, that gives an idea of the kind of thing I'm looking for. The more forested the town feels, the better. Mountains are a big plus, but I could do without it as long as I can still get the forest. Like I said, I'm looking for somewhere in semi-isolation. I'm very much a loner and like to keep to myself, and would like to live in a house surrounded by trees without any neighbors too close by. This might surprise you if you remember my comment about about training in psychology and wanting to make a career out of it, so let me clarify. Unlike the stereotypical portrayal of loners on tv and movies, and the notion we get from the serial-killer type and those who end up shooting people at a school, I'm not completely embittered against humanity and hate people, never wanting to talk to people again, at least more than I have to. I do have some degree of cynicism, but it's balanced by a healthy degree of optimism too. I don't hate people, and I even want to help them, so I don't mind some interaction. But being as I am, I have to be able to get away too, and would like to live in relative solitude otherwise. For me, that sounds like bliss. I don't want to live in an unfriendly town either, but the accompanying friendliness in small-towns can be a negative for me in how nosy and probing people can be. I'd like to be left alone for the most part at least.
So I would like to be able to live a little away from people, both in town and in my house if at all possible, but too isolated. I would like to have all the municipal service ideally, or at least some of them and try to compensate for the rest if I have to. I realize that shopping and dining options are going to be a little limited, and it's not a major issue for me, but ideally I'd hope to live somewhere close by with at least some options so that I can make a day trip out of it every now and then. But this brings me to the next issue. Ideally, I'd hope for there to be cell service but I'm also aware that it will be iffy in the mountains so it's something I can compromise on somewhat. There's also the matter of technology. I know this is a bit of a case where I'm trying to have my cake and eat it too, in that I might not be able to have all of what I'm asking for as they may even oppose the other, but I hope I can strike an optimal balance where I can still get most of what I want. Being a huge internet nerd and loving to surf the web, some internet service options are a fairly high priority, preferably high speed internet. Considering that I won't have too many physical shopping options anyway, that's where online ordering, especially from Amazon, really comes in handy. Because then, you don't really need too many stores beyond the basic necessity stores. In fact, even living in Houston, I still end up doing a lot of online ordering through Amazon anyway, because the stuff I'm usually looking for isn't sold in stores most of the time, though you can place an order through them too; it's just usually more expensive to do it that way.
As I mentioned before, I'd seriously like to avoid tourist traps for a number of reasons. Usually few job opportunities outside of catering to tourists, the huge number of tourists during certain seasons like the summer(I don't hate tourists, just don't want to be swamped with them either which is why I want something semi-secluded), and perhaps most importantly, the housing costs are astronomical in places like Jackson from what I hear. If I have to pay a little extra to get all or most of what I want, I'll probably be willing to do it when the time comes to make the decision and I have a job lined up so I'll have some money, but I seriously don't want to have to pay oodles of money for a tiny little house that might not have the other things I'm looking for either. I'm also hoping to engage in some outdoor activities. If I'm going to be living in a forested area, I'd like to be able to do things outside to enjoy and appreciate it. Hiking is a plus, probably jogging and biking, perhaps some mountain climbing if there are any nearby.
Now for the matter of jobs. Not being independently wealthy, like most people I'm sure, I'll have to work for a living, so ultimately it's going to depend on where the jobs are. It might mean having to be around a place like Cheyenne or Laramie, but that's where I become disappointed because I hear that they're not the kind of places I'm looking for, but not quite as sure on Laramie. As mentioned before, I'll be majoring in School Psychology, Educational Psychology, or possibly double majoring in both, though they are pretty similar as it is. There are some differences though. My main interest is in gifted children, and though I'm disappointed by the lack of established guidelines for gifted education in your state, it does seem like there's a decent amount of money reserved for gifted kids considering the size of the state, and it has been going up from previous years. I read a number of topics of other people considering moving here, albeit much sooner than I, and I remember encountering some saying Wyoming does fund education very well, and it seems they haven't completely neglected gifted education. It would help me to know if there are any clinics dedicated to counseling gifted children anywhere in Wyoming, and hopefully at least near somewhere in the environment I'd like to live. I know there's something like that in Colorado, around Denver I believe, so I may end up having to compromise, but that's how it is. If there's any perceived need for it, even starting my own is a possibility, but not really my first choice. I may end up working in a school somewhere with gifted services and hopefully that should open up a lot of opportunities instead of being confined to just Cheyenne and probably Laramie. If I do a school, I'd hope to eventually make around $60-70k a year, which is around average or slightly above at the upper range, but it also depends on the area. It won't make me filthy rich, especially considering the amount of money I get to pay back with loans and the interest accrued on them, but it's at least a pretty decent salary.
I figure I may as well list the other states I'm considering if anyone has any perspective or advice on them, and suggestions on other places to look especially if Wyoming isn't going to offer a place that fits even most of my wants. It basically runs the gamut of all the northern states. A top choice is Montana as it sounds a lot like what I picture Wyoming to be; there's Alaska but that's almost too remote in the sense of being as removed as it is from the rest of the country, and the lack of roads in many areas. There's also the bitter cold. I'll get more about the weather in a bit, so I know Wyoming can be pretty cold too, but Alaska sounds even more intense; it makes sense considering it's a good ways even farther north. Oregon could be a possibility if it's as forested as I think it is, and I commuting to Portland may be an option if I have to get a job in a bigger city. I hear Washington state is very beautiful and there's Seattle, but there seem to be a lot of people there. I hear Vermont and New Hampshire have beautiful forests, so there's that, but if I lived in the northeast, I might prefer Maine. But again, I don't know if it's really the environment I'm looking for. How are Michigan, Minnesota, and Wisconsin while I'm at it? They seem to be a bit crowded, but you can find small towns just about in any state you're in, even Texas, so it's not an automatic rule-out. There's plenty of them here, actually. I've also heard northern Idaho might have what I'm looking for, but I don't know. Surprisingly to me, I've heard even Reno, Nevada offers a bit of that. Nevada's definitely not a state I think of when I describe my ideal type of home town. Reno's a bit on the bigger side of things, but I may not have a choice given what I'd like to do occupationally. I at least know there's the Davidson Academy for the Profoundly Gifted Youth there, though that doesn't necessarily mean I could get a job there, that's just an example of a place that I could possibly be employed by.
This has sure turned into one hell of a long essay! Sorry about that. Thought I'd mention that yeah, I know about the weather in Wyoming, at least a little bit. Being a Texan most of my life, and from New Mexico even before that, it will definitely require some adjusting. But I've always had a higher tolerance for the cold than many of my Texan peers. I may not be comfortable in 20 degree weather by any means, but with a nice coat, I can handle it, especially since it's not like I'll be outside all the time in that weather anyway. I've even been to Wyoming before. Many years ago my parents took me up to Yellowstone National Park so I've experienced some of Wyoming and Montana, and I do remember it being a bit chillier up there. I also remember getting the sickest I've ever been for the longest I've ever been during that trip too, which slightly marred an otherwise enjoyable experience. Even still, I think I can take the weather, considering the cold doesn't bother me incredibly significantly, and I am getting tired of the Texas heat and humidity.
I can't think of many "densely forested town areas" in Wyoming. Story perhaps, which is nestled against the Bighorns between Sheridan and Buffalo, but it's a tiny town. If you got a job in Sheridan or Buffalo you could commute there. Most Wyoming towns are in valleys or on the plains.
Someone else can tell you more about job opportunities and programs for gifted children in Wyoming. My daughter was in a program for the gifted in Gillette's schools, but that was a couple decades ago.
And I wouldn't be too concerned about the 20 degree weather in Wyoming; be more concerned about the -20 degree weather. Believe it or not, we see joggers out running in their shorts when it's down to zero. Our dry air, bright sun and thin atmosphere make cold days seem warmer, and you'll often see steam coming off the streets when it's near zero. Other days, when the wind is howling, you'll wonder if man was supposed to live here. Just a warning -- there's a lot of difference between 20 degrees and minus 20.
Ok, thanks for the input. You're right, there's definitely a big difference between 20 degree weather and -20 degree weather. Texas gets colder than most people probably think, but certainly not that cold. I don't doubt -20 degree weather will be very harsh, but I shouldn't be outside for very long one would hope, at least. I'm amazed people would jog in their shorts in 0 degree weather though! Wow! I have a good tolerance for the cold for a Texan but that's way beyond what I'd be comfortable with. I understand the heat generated from the exercise helps a little, but that's still pretty crazy to me.
I'd guess that Laramie might your best option overall in Wyoming for work though maybe Sheridan or Cody could give you much of what you want, living in the nearby lower end of the forest. Bozeman and Missoula in Montana and maybe Kalispell / Whitefish have a heavier and more immediate forest cover, good students, but maybe lower pay than Wyoming. Same might be true in Coeur d"Alene and Sandpoint Idaho or maybe working in Moscow Idaho and living further to the east in the forested area. In Washington, if you could tolerate working in a satellite area outside Seattle proper, you could look into working in Issaquah or Snoqualmie (with lots of kids of techies and other middle to upper-end urban workers) and living further out like in North Bend or past it to the east. There are options in Oregon too, maybe near Eugene. Probably will be hard to find significant gifted programs and high pay in a rural area without it being a tourist / resort area like Sun Valley or Bend or in a mid-size city with a university and the number of positions will probably be few. Getting something good enough to start then advancing / moving to a more desirable area later is what many have to do.
If the degree of cold is an issue then Missoula or parts of ID/ WA / OR may work better. But it might be worth noting that while -20 or worse will happen in Wyoming and some other parts of the Rockies it is not the day to day winter norm unless you really got up in elevation. The weather service says Laramie for example gets below 32 degrees as a daily high only about 50 times a year and only get below 0 as a low 15 days in an average year.
If the degree of cold is an issue then Missoula or parts of ID/ WA / OR may work better. But it might be worth noting that while -20 or worse will happen in Wyoming and some other parts of the Rockies it is not the day to day winter norm unless you really got up in elevation. The weather service says Laramie for example gets below 32 degrees as a daily high only about 50 times a year and only get below 0 as a low 15 days in an average year.
True about many parts of Montana-Idaho-Washington having warmer weather than Wyoming. They get some of that coastal weather influence that we miss in Wyoming. Even Billings has shorter winters.
However, I'm VERY surprised that Laramie only dips below zero 15 days a year on average. I remember one year ('82?) when it never got above zero in Gillette from Thanksgiving until New Years Eve. (It was my first year of owning a family shoe store, and we couldn't get enough warm boots.) But we typically remember the worst weather and forget the normal stuff.
This may be a longer story than many need, but based on your response, I dug into the issue further, at least for my own interest in understanding the winter issue.
I went back to the database I referred to and now see that it was old and not as long as typically. To test it, I went to this past winter's daily data for Laramie and found 35 days of 0 or below, much more than that average result. With several days below -20 and the lowest being -27.
There probably are years and even decades that bounce up or down on frequency of below zero temps. Maybe the data I first saw was not a fair average. It was based on about 15 years and that average was fairly similar to what I found for other cities of similar elevation and with a longer time-period of data that extended right up thru current time, but maybe the Laramie data happened to be from a time-period with an usually low frequency of zero temps. Maybe.
Another question though would be was this past winter normal or harsher than normal? Maybe more than one thing is causing this big difference.
I started to wonder about there possibly being different weather stations for the historical database and the one I used for last season and some reporting variance from that, so I went back and now see there are 4 Laramie stations with historical data. The other one with old data was in line with the first station with old data but the 2 newer stations with data up thru today had averages of 26 and 29 days below zero. I guess the winter have been colder in recent decades and / or colder at these stations (perhaps there was some notable difference due to the siting of them or improved technology or whatever). But it also looks like this past winter was above average on frequency of below zero days.
Of course the wind and windchill are also a big factor to how cold it feels and adds to the intensity of Wyoming winter and the frequency of days that feel colder than zero.
When I think of your baseline of "wooded areas" as the Texas Hill Country, which I'm reasonably familiar with (having spent a bit of time in the Kerrville area with annual stays in the area) ... I'd say that no place in Wyoming compares.
The climate zone and annual moisture is a totally different environment than Wyoming. It's way colder and drier here, even in the summer months. Wyoming doesn't have the humidity and heat of the hill country during the summer, and it's way colder and windier during the 6 months of winter.
Cheyenne is on the plains, and Laramie sits in a low spot adjacent to one of the coldest and windiest ridge lines in the state. The winters in either place are long, cold, windy, and pretty brutal compared to a balmy place like the Hill Country. The altitude here plays a big part, and also affects the types of trees that grow here ... which are much sparser in our "forests" that what you'd ever see in Texas.
Professionally, I think you'll be disappointed in Wyoming. The few jobs in your field don't pay what you'd expect in major metropolitan areas, and there's a lot of well qualified people already here competing for the few openings.
If you have made living "in a forest" area such as the Hill Country a priority, then I'd follow your comment that there's no need to move from Texas to Wyoming. .
Not trying to rain on your parade, but you've been very specific and detailed about what your preferences are for a place to live ... and it's a totally different paradigm than the reality of being here.
Last edited by sunsprit; 09-24-2010 at 07:26 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Believe it or not, we see joggers out running in their shorts when it's down to zero. Our dry air, bright sun and thin atmosphere make cold days seem warmer, and you'll often see steam coming off the streets when it's near zero. Other days, when the wind is howling, you'll wonder if man was supposed to live here. Just a warning -- there's a lot of difference between 20 degrees and minus 20.
