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sheriff, county has to maintain the road, school bus has to go out, weed and pest has to spray the county road, probally a fire district, and probally also inside a cemetarty district too. Every study on rual subdivsion done show the increase in property taxes don't cover the increase in services.
sheriff, county has to maintain the road, school bus has to go out, weed and pest has to spray the county road, probally a fire district, and probally also inside a cemetarty district too. Every study on rual subdivsion done show the increase in property taxes don't cover the increase in services.
Jody, I've seen a number of high expense to the existing city and county infrastructure developments go in ... just like you have. But this one has been done more in keeping with the latest realities of developer expenses instead of "gimmes" ....
OK, let's break this down by income and expense:
And let's preface this by recognizing that the development 1,900 acres is not terribly remote to the City of Laramie ....
1) Sheriff: they've got the county responsibility to begin with. With more residents moving into the area building new houses, what previously was low tax rate/low value pasture land generating only a few dollars per year in county tax revenue per acre now becomes a gold mine of income for the sheriff's dept.
Especially with land going from about $100/acre valuation and lowest unimproved pasture tax rates to $3,000-3,500 per acre and high tax rate residential with high dollar housing improvements and high valuation new barns/outbuildings, there's going to be a manyfold increase in the tax revenue to the county. Even on the lots that are sold that don't get developed for awhile, the land still will have gone up 30 times in valuation.
Consider, too, that many of these building parcels will not be year-round residences. But when the houses are built, that's the increased tax base upon which folk pay an annual tax ... at the new valuations.
What do you think these houses will be built for? $150/psf $200/psf? Have you looked at the covenants? Pre-fab, manufactured homes, modulars ... all of the low rent district type housing construction is prohibited in the subdivision. Nobody's going to pour a slab and bring in a $65,000 mobile home and set it on there. The CC&R's call for what amounts to high quality/high dollar construction with a minimum house size specified that would be far in excess of what I'd need (or want) for my residence. My bet is that most of the homes going in here will be $250-500,000 structures. As new construction, they're going to get hit with top dollar residential tax rates; an assessor is going to look at these on a replacement cost basis and the replacement cost is top dollar, not low dollar fixture based assessments in a trailer home.
Note that the restrictive CC&R's prohibit most uses that you and I would consider as normal for our "country life" ... storage of vehicles and equipment outside in our various areas, fencing our property for our livestock and ag needs, riding an ATV or motorcycle around in any manner other than pure transportation (recreational riding banned!), and so forth. I've got 5 boats (up to a 23' keel sailboat), where could I store them on this type of property? Can't according to the covenants because you are limited to the number of outbuildings and structures and anything stored outside (including your trash dumpster/cans) must be hidden behind a structure. I'd run out of legal structures before I ran out of boats, motorcycles, ATV's, cars, pick-up trucks, trailers, equipment, haystacks, etc.
Worse yet, while the CC&R's allow for keeping livestock (within limits), you can't have your LGD loose to protect them. I know that my sheep flock would be decimated if I didn't have my LGD's out there 24/7/365 to protect them. Same for my free-ranged poultry and the chicken tractors ... no LGD's, no surviving poultry.
So what type of people will be buying into this subdivision? Certainly not the likes of you and me ... I wouldn't move to a place in the country that didn't allow me to indulge at will in my various hobbies and acquisitions. Some of my cars or boats haven't been run or licensed for years, but the CC&R's prohibit them from being on the property.
2) Albany county school district will have to provide bus service, but the bulk of the funding there will come from the subdivision's substantially increased tax base. In my estimation, you won't have young blue-collar wage earner type families moving into this subdivision. There will be mostly older affluent upscale people or retirees, a group more likely than not to not have kids in school. Meanwhile, there's approx 50 parcels which will all be paying taxes at top rates even though most won't be using the school district. Such is the reality when our kids grow up and leave home but we're still paying school district taxes for many years.
This subdivision has presented no cost to the school district in the past, but will most likely pay a lot of taxes far in excess of it's expense to the district over the years.
3) Road maintenance: The City of Laramie already has been maintaining 9th Street to the city limits on the existing tax base. The county has been maintaining the road for years with weed and pest applications. I don't see that this changes because it's an existing roadway now that the subdivision comes into existence. I'll bet there's a net increase in weed and pest taxes from the subdivision far in excess of any possible increase to Albany county for weed and pest control on that road.
4) Fire district. The county already had to provide services to this 1,900 acre area when it was a low valuation/low tax generating property. With 50 odd residences going in paying substantial top dollar tax rates to the county, my bet is there will be a net increase in the revenue for this area. I doubt that the county will create a new fire district for only 50 houses and build and staff a new fire station for this. Net winner, IMO, will be the county fire department. At that, I didn't spot how this was going to be addressed by the subdivision; perhaps they will form a volunteer fire department on their own HOA budget.
5) Cemetary district? C'mon, Jody ... this isn't an incorporated town, it's a small subdivision. I suppose they could apply for and create their own cemetary, but I don't see them becoming a burden upon the existing cemetaries in the area to which they will also be paying property taxes. Even then, how many people would need a cemetary other than the private ones in the area?
So far, you haven't shown me anything that would be a new overall financial burden upon the existing City or County functions.
"all those studies" that showed an increase upon existing infrastructure expense by a new subdivision came about because new roads, curb and gutter had to be built to access it. Along with that, water and sanitation services, and utilities. From all appearances for this subdivision, those costs are not being imposed upon the city or county. The utilities were put in by the developer, the subdivision roads are not in the county road system, the water and septic are being installed by each individual parcel owner.
In my estimation, it's seeking to be a very upscale yuppie subdivision compared to more familiar and previously established rural subdivisions. It's land priced and CC&R's to be very upscale. I'll be curious to see if they can get their price and maintain their position in the marketplace. Jackson or Pinedale, this place is not ... as folk will discover their first winter or so in Albany county. As nice a town as Laramie is, it's limited in it's attractions and draw for affluent folk ... especially in light of the residential restrictions in the CC&R's. When you look at comparable types of subdivisions, they are in areas of far greater affluence with multiple draws for the money'ed set ... ski resorts, golf courses, shopping, restaurants, theaters and movie screens, fishing, hunting, and so forth.
Not only is Laramie not in that league .... but the site location for this subdivision doesn't begin to match the scenic beauty of a Jackson environment. The foothills to the East aren't especially scenic, and the Western views are ... well, just OK. Compare these levels of attractiveness to established upscale communities/subdivisions in rural mountain areas around the Rocky Mountains and this subdivision leaves a lot to be desired.
I think most affluent folk looking at a rural Wyoming place at this type of price point have a lot of far superior choices ... I'd be up around Sheridan or Cody or Dubois or Lander as first choices in preference to this location, and I'd be able to do it without the stifling CC&R's that this place has got attached to it. My bet is that there's very few Laramie folk who will buy into this place, it's going to be mostly out of area folk who don't understand or anticipate the local climate and long winters in the area with minimal things to do close by.
Just the basic study done at UW and CSU shpw something like for every dollar in Ag valued preoperty taxes there sometning like $.85 cents in services(blade the road once a year) rural subdivsion every dollar collected in property taxes , end up with over $2 in services, probally just the increase in road maintance but other things add up too, when there more time I find the studies. But yes that one 35-40 acre development to shy away from
Just the basic study done at UW and CSU shpw something like for every dollar in Ag valued preoperty taxes there sometning like $.85 cents in services(blade the road once a year) rural subdivsion every dollar collected in property taxes , end up with over $2 in services, probally just the increase in road maintance but other things add up too, when there more time I find the studies. But yes that one 35-40 acre development to shy away from
Having watched how developers were handed substantial infrastructure improvements by municipalities and county govt's around this state, and required support that their tax base didn't fund ... here, as well as in other local states ... in years past, I agree that some of the developments had the costs shifted away from the development onto others.
But the more recent economy and the recent exposure of how those other developers "got away" with adverse impact upon the services has curtailed some of these abuses.
I've read a number of the studies you probably are referring to and they were on target ... years ago.
I'd venture that those prior studies aren't applicable to this development. I'm just not seeing where this developer is impacting the existing infrastructure and tax base of others.
Try crunching some numbers on this one ...
The county road was already in existence and being plowed/maintained by the county. I'm not seeing that change due to this subdivision being platted and served by the county.
Albany county land valuation was probably in the $100-200 per acre for unimproved raw pasture land. When sold, the new valuation FMV will be around $3,000 ... or more ... for that land which is raised from a lowest value to a high-grade residential valuation. Due to the CC&R's, my take is that the entire 35+ acres of each parcel would be valued as residential because their is no other allowed use for it. Each parcel is retailing for low 6 figures.
Add in the infrastructure costs of each parcel: well, septic, underground utilities from the parcel edge 10' ROW to the homesite ... I'd venture that each parcel owner will spend at least $30,000 in these improvements.
The minimum size houses suggest houses costing $250K and up.
The specs for the outbuildings suggest another $50-100K in improvements. If I read the CC&R's correctly, metal sided pole barns aren't going to be allowed; higher quality exterior siding will be required. The only exterior metal allowed is on the roofs, and it's got to be an architectural roof rather than a strongbarn panel roof.
The parcel owners are required to install (and maintain) landscaping within a certain time frame. With specified minimum tree trunks of over an inch diameter at about 4' height, they're requiring rather substantial adult trees to be installed. Wait until the homeowners discover what these trees are going to cost them ... these are pro landscaper truck spade sized trees, not bare root dig a hole and plant size trees from the box store/nursery. Again, the way I read the CC&R's, it's not satisfactory to plant the required trees to fulfil the requirements; you've got to plant the trees and have them survive to meet the landscaping requirement. Given the exposure and climate of the area, getting all of your planted trees to survive is problematic ... which is one of the reasons why these parcels have few, if any, natural surviving trees on them now. So if several of the mandated trees die, you'll be ripping them out and replacing to be in accordance with the CC&R's. Depending upon variety, I'd venture that these are going to be $300-1,000 trees, each. Then it would be prudent to install a drip irrigation system to the landscaping to make it easier to keep them watered to get them established.
The CC&R's are modeled upon estate size parcels with sweeping vistas of greenery and lawns from upscale residential areas of the country ... only this is sagebrush high alititude prairie with very limited water available to each site.
The unknowing will be mislead into thinking that this is productive soil with all the water they need to turn their properties into lush expanses of lawn and landscaping ... lured into that mindset by the Casper aquifer just 75' or so below the surface and with plenty of water for them, per the developer's representation about the availability of good water.
Wait until that concept meets the reality that they've got a potential water right of a maximum of 25 GPM for a domestic well which is limited to domestic household use and a maximum of 1 acre of landscape watering. The DEQ water quality requirements for this acquifer specify that nothing hazardous will be discharged onto the surface of the land that could leach back into the ground. IMO, a strict interpretation of the laws for the area could even prohibit the washing of a vehicle where gray water might be allowed to run off onto the ground.
You have but to look at the area to know that it's exposed to a hash climate and a short growing season where natural vegetation isn't very productive. Dividing this land into 35's won't change that when you can't water the property.
The developer was very crafty to insert a provision into the CC&R's that "overgrazing" wouldn't be allowed and that the HOA committee could hire their own expert to evaluate such abuse of the properties; to the extent that they could restrict a homeowner from grazing their land and also require them to remove the livestock from their property. Couched in terms preserving the "visual appearance" of the land, it's really crafted to address the fact that this land will not support much grazing without the natural vegetation being damaged. That's on top of the requirement that you not fence your land, which was clearly intended to minimize the prospect of anybody grazing their parcel even though up to 6 horses are allowed per parcel ... although this provision was also crafted under the guise of visual quality of the open space land to be preserved.
I really did get a laugh out of the CC&R's ... where the developer makes such a big deal about wanting to preserve the appearance of a high quality "western" residential area. But then goes on to specify that anything stored outside a residence must be hidden from view, such as a woodpile for your woodstove. Now, what could be more "western" than a few cords of wood in a neat pile stacked and stored in a handy accessible place by a house point of use during the winter? But no, this is an objectionable thing that must be hidden from the view of all by an enclosure or stored inside a building/structure. The CC&R's micro-manage every aspect of life in the country, as I see it ... and the developer is the HOA committee until all of the parcels are sold, so his intent is already expressed in the CC&R's and I would anticipate that he'll be strictly interpreting them in accordance with his vision of the development. At that, even after the parcels are sold out, the developer reserves the right to remain as one of the three HOA committee members.
I don't know anything about the development, but I was a State Trooper in Laramie for 5 years. Since you are retiring, you may be able to enjoy life north of town. I would not recommend it for a family or anyone who has to travel to town daily. Being retired, you can prepare for the winter and be comfortable inside your house for a week or two at a time after a storm. Most of these out of town subdivisions pitch in together for snow plowing, but don't expect for your street to be plowed for several days after a big storm. And no, a 4x4 SUV is not going to get you down a Wyoming country road after a big snow - or at all unless it is regularly plowed. Running electric lines out is very expensive, and some areas require wells to be very deep for good water (I don't know about your area). Once you do hit water, the Casper Aquifer offers what many believe to be the best drinking water in North America. Some people living out of town have a sistern and haul water from town, that's why you see lots of trailers around Laramie with big water tanks on them. Many folks in the country opt for an off-grid home. Wyoming has high wind all winter and lots of sun in the summer, so the cost of a wind generator and a lot of solar panels is sometimes cheaper than running electric, which can be 20k to get from a pole out to where you want your house.
Know that winter starts in October and commonly ends in May. About 6 years ago there was a big (and damaging) snowstorm on the morning of July 4th that shut the city down. In January have spare water on hand in the house, because -40 temps will often freeze your well.
Build your house to hurricane wind standards with hurricane clips, wind & impact resistant shingles, closed gables, etc. Winter winds do commonly reach hurricane strength with gusts of 75-80 mph. The University of Wyoming has a great resource of experts in wind & snow drifts - spend the extra money and hire professionals to help you plot out your house and building snow fences. For example, face your house the wrong way or with a design flaw and you could wake up one morning with a snow piled high over your garage door snow bounding you until someone with a front end loader or plow can come help you.
I highly suggest building a well insulated & HEATED garage with big drains in the floor and a high entry door.
I don't want to scare you, as Wyoming can be a wonderful and beautiful place to call home. I actually recommend it! However, people wanting to sell you property will not usually tell you the realities of winter life, which you should be prepared for.
CSU did a study just a frew years ago , about wild life and development, they came down really hard on the 40 acre lots and being the most disruptive go on as saying the poorest 160 acre run farm had better wild life diversity then 40 that try and manage for wildlife... a cluster development with the rest the land owned in common and not developed was next best to just developing right next to town.
but now that a differnit direction
I've been to Timber Canyon probably 8 times in the past three years and I really love the place. The views seem to be the best in the area. The Casper aqua fir is a huge plus too. I've walked a few of the lots, visited the listing agents office for discussion and gone out to the development with an agent too. I would REALLY like to live there, but there are some real show stoppers for me. Perhaps number one is the price, it needs to reflect demand - and come down. There doesn't look to be any demand. Three homes built so far and one is a spec home?? I haven't been there since April 2012 so maybe that has changed - I don't know. Next big issue is the covenants. No perimeter fence? You've GOT to be kidding. Sell me a piece of property and tell me I can't fence my boundary. No thanks. The HOA list IS extensive and very restrictive. Some items seem good; I do prefer a stick development. And then there is the daily drive past the dump. I'm all for garbage dumps and they have to be somewhere and here is a good a place as any, but paying a premium price and getting to drive past that wind blown mess really turns me off. After a good session of trash paper pickup the place is passable, but this past Spring I was "blown away" with how bad the trash was. If memory serves me, I measured more than a mile before the neighboring fields were clear of paper. Folks East of the dump were really getting hit hard.
The place has such potential but I think their marketing is way out of touch. As for the snow and plows getting out, keep the pantry stocked and dry cord handy for the stove. Cheers.
well, from living elsewhere, I have to say the CC&R issues you point out are what I'm actually looking for! We've seen several parcels with beautiful views, except the neighbors junk pile, the barking dogs, etc. Personally, and this is just me mind you, I like a little control over what the neighbor does to my view and solitude....
And by the way...I'm a Wyo native so don't conclude I'm just another intruder looking to be a cowboy....I love this State. I've missed it for a long time now.
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Timber Canyon Ranch
