Gillette, Sheridan, Lander, or Rawlins? (Rock Springs, Riverton: mineral rights, rentals, hotel)

[ElkHunter]

WyoNewk,

It was Not Eagle Butte. WyoDak is a private mine that services 2 power plants and thats it.

I was on the crew that built all the bridges and box culverts for I-90. When we were doing the bridge over 59 and trucks were running South of town to this new mine. So we drove out to take a look. It was about 9 miles South and 2 miles East. Maybe that will key something for you.

In 72, Gillette was 99% oil and 1 percent Coal.

I worked for Keiwit and I know a lot about his company. Pete lived up here just West of Sheridan. But I never knew that is why he started mining.

By the way. Big Horn Coal was owned by Keiwit. So was Decker. Peter Keiwit died years ago but his company still owned Decker up until about 2 months ago when they sold it.

Also he always had two pockets. I worked for Structural Iron and Steel which was owned by Pete. But we rented all of our equipment from his Equipment department. Do you know why he did that? Very simple. The State didin't allow the Interstate to be built by one company. So the Highway construction was contracted to Petes Highway Department and the bridges and box culverts were contracted to Structural Iron and Steel. Smart. He picked up both contracts. It's the same with his coal mine. Decker was owned by him. But I was on the crew of Structural Iron and Steel and we built the silo, crushers, conveyers, etc... Another company of Pete's was contracted to actually mine it. He did that so if he ever had trouble, he could sell off one of those contracts and stilll hold a majority.

We also built 2 mines in Hanna that were his.

[WyoNewk]

Yeah, that would have been Belle Ayr Mine that you visited in '72. It was just getting underway then. It's a little more than 10 miles south, more like 15, but that's the one you drove out to see. My son works there.

[ElkHunter]

Originally Posted by WyoNewk

Yeah, that would have been Belle Ayr Mine that you visited in '72. It was just getting underway then. It's a little more than 10 miles south, more like 15, but that's the one you drove out to see. My son works there.

Yeah, that's it. Now that I heard the name, I remember.

What a trip down memory lane eh?

[WyoNewk]

Originally Posted by WyoNewk

... I can't recall the value/cost of a mine, but I'd imagine the big ones around Gillette are exceeding $100 million, and business doesn't usually walk away from that kind of investment....

I still haven't come across a mine's true value in Campbell County, but a story just came out today about Arch Coal bidding on a 3-square-mile tract of land adjacent to its Black Thunder Mine for future expansion -- $300 million just for the coal that lies below the surface ($1.347 per ton). Looks like my $100 million figure was WAAAAY low.

That's for an estimated 222.7 million tons -- somewhere in the range of 22,000 trains full of coal at 100K tons per coal car and 100 cars per train. At three trains a day, that's 20 years worth right there.

[ElkHunter]

Originally Posted by WyoNewk

I still haven't come across a mine's true value in Campbell County, but a story just came out today about Arch Coal bidding on a 3-square-mile tract of land adjacent to its Black Thunder Mine for future expansion -- $300 million just for the coal that lies below the surface ($1.347 per ton). Looks like my $100 million figure was WAAAAY low.

That's for an estimated 222.7 million tons -- somewhere in the range of 22,000 trains full of coal at 100K tons per coal car and 100 cars per train. At three trains a day, that's 20 years worth right there.

In 2005 Burrlington expanded their sidings to allow longer trains. That was a big holdup because they were wasting engines. They could pull more cars with their power, but they couldn't pull into a siding if they expanded. But now, they run between 125 and 130 cars. Each car is 100 ton. When they get down to Chadron Neb, they double the trains and still keep only 2 engines. So 250 cars. Really ticks people off at the crossings. hahaha

[WyoNewk]

Originally Posted by ElkHunter

In 2005 Burrlington expanded their sidings to allow longer trains. That was a big holdup because they were wasting engines. They could pull more cars with their power, but they couldn't pull into a siding if they expanded. But now, they run between 125 and 130 cars. Each car is 100 ton. When they get down to Chadron Neb, they double the trains and still keep only 2 engines. So 250 cars. Really ticks people off at the crossings. hahaha

Really?! I knew they were sometimes up around 110 cars but thought there was a law that they couldn't be longer -- due to waits at crossings. Wow! A 250-car train would create a long wait!

Years ago, when I was somewhat involved in coal mining (producing newsletters for a couple mines), there was talk of a new longer "super" coal car. By making them longer there was less space wasted between each one, so a mile-long train could carry more coal. Apparently the idea never materialized. It would have required a lot of changes along the way besides just new cars.

[ElkHunter]

Originally Posted by WyoNewk

Really?! I knew they were sometimes up around 110 cars but thought there was a law that they couldn't be longer -- due to waits at crossings. Wow! A 250-car train would create a long wait!

Years ago, when I was somewhat involved in coal mining (producing newsletters for a couple mines), there was talk of a new longer "super" coal car. By making them longer there was less space wasted between each one, so a mile-long train could carry more coal. Apparently the idea never materialized. It would have required a lot of changes along the way besides just new cars.

There are several limiting factors on how many cars and surprisingly, the law isn't in there at all. There is a time limit on blocking a crossing but I think it's 45 minutes.

Here in Wyoming, they run 125 and use two 9200 engines on the front and 1 or 2 helpers. That's to keep the slack out because of hills. Two 9200 engines can pull the train all the way from spokane to Fort Worth. Trouble is, when they go over a hill there is so much weight on the tail that the train will pull in two. Yup, they'll bust a knuckle almost center of the train. So they have helpers (1 or 2 engines) linger around the hills. When a train get's close, the helper will hook on and help them over the top. THen he'll linger on the other side until a train is coming from the other direction, or, if there is a train following, he scuttle back to the other side to help the next train.

That's not for every train. A lot of times the freight trains can make the hills by themselves. But EVERY coal train needs help.

Something I find funny. In the movies you always see the guy broke down on the track and sees the train coming at him so he waves his arms and the train stops. Yeah, right. hahahaha Coal trains can legally travel 65 mph. With 125 cars each car carrying 100 ton of coal, plus the weight of the cars, that train, traveling at 65 mph, if they simply "plug" the train (to plug it is a switch, if you hit that switch you will set every brake on every car) if you plug it, it will slide over a mile. So go ahead, flap your arms.

[ElkHunter]

To the OP. Sorry, we kind of derailed your thread with all the train talk.

Have you come any closer to figuring out which town you want?

[Pooka218]

Originally Posted by ElkHunter

To the OP. Sorry, we kind of derailed your thread with all the train talk.

Have you come any closer to figuring out which town you want?

its ok i dont mind...not any closer yet...still researching...im hoping soon i will narrow it down....big decision to make

[NDak15]

Originally Posted by Pooka218

its ok i dont mind...not any closer yet...still researching...im hoping soon i will narrow it down....big decision to make

Keep the questions coming, we're all happy to help.