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Old 12-03-2012, 12:57 PM
 
11,509 posts, read 50,025,054 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wm Jas View Post
sunsprit - I still can't see where our opinions are that far apart in the big picture (snip)
I'll spell it out for you and type slowly so that you can maybe understand:

You continue to assert that a FWD vehicle with studded snow tires is superior in performance to an AWD vehicle that doesn't have studded tires. But modern tire technology has been proven to equal the performance of studded tires with non-studded tires. Study after study done by car marque owner's clubs, tire manufacturers, and independent studies have supported that result.

I seriously doubt that you have anywhere near the test data or results from driving numerous vehicles and tire combinations equipped with the non-studded tires as those numerous studies have done to base any possible meaningful comparison to studded tires.

You can continue to claim that studs outperform studless, but my real world driving experience here has been that studs aren't necessary, and indeed, are detrimental in most driving situations and to the roadways. That's proven facts, not conjecture, and it's the basis upon which various states have restricted the use of studded tires.

I remind you that this thread is about WYOMING driving in real world scenarios.

Given that perspective, what you encountered on the ice racing track or on your driveway in Maine (in a totally different driving inclement weather situation due to temps, humidity, seasonal sunshine at altitude, moisture content of the snow, etc) isn't valid here in Wyoming for a typical driver getting around the region. For example, "chinook" winds are a regional phenomenon not found in New England high humidity climates, and these sublimating winds greatly affect the moisture and freezing conditions that present on the roads here in Wyoming.
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Old 12-03-2012, 01:39 PM
 
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Dear sunsprit - We agree. Studs aren't necessary, especially here in Wyoming. I have never claimed otherwise.

At the same time I will stand by my most basic premise that no matter how good the latest technology snow tire may be that adding studs will increase it's traction on ice.

My point about our general agreement is that you do not seem to disagree with that premise.
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Old 12-03-2012, 03:13 PM
 
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Studs are not necessary but boy do they make a difference when it counts. Just last week they made the difference between me sliding off the hill or staying on the road.
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Old 12-03-2012, 05:26 PM
 
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Just an idle observation (I skimmed a bunch of the posts) ~ studs pretty much only hold an advantage on ice. I can think of 2 times in my ~12 years of driving in MT, WY and CO where there was honest Ice on the roads. Normally it's either packed snow, blowing snow, Slushy snow and most often, dry roads.

In contrast, out of the ~10 years I have driving on the East coast, I can't remember how many times I had to deal with ice (and this time split between DC and Atlanta, nowhere far enough north to have real winter), but it's easily more than 3 times a year.

Studless snow tires on a FWD car was plenty enough in the Rockies. Never stuck... well, there was that one unplowed driveway where I packed enough snow under the skidplate to lift the tires off the ground, and the only slides were intentional. I imagine the same will be true of a RWD cargo van (with some weight over the drive wheels). Pick the right tire and you can use them year-round without harm or shortening the lifespan, added noise or hurting the roads. We're closing in on the end of our 2nd set of Nokian WR tires (with the WR2 on currently). Not much need for them down here in middle GA, though they are phenomenal in the rain/wet. I did see a 4% decrease in fuel economy over touring tires though.
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Old 12-03-2012, 06:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian_M View Post
Just an idle observation (I skimmed a bunch of the posts) ~ studs pretty much only hold an advantage on ice. I can think of 2 times in my ~12 years of driving in MT, WY and CO where there was honest Ice on the roads. Normally it's either packed snow, blowing snow, Slushy snow and most often, dry roads.

In contrast, out of the ~10 years I have driving on the East coast, I can't remember how many times I had to deal with ice (and this time split between DC and Atlanta, nowhere far enough north to have real winter), but it's easily more than 3 times a year.

Studless snow tires on a FWD car was plenty enough in the Rockies. Never stuck... well, there was that one unplowed driveway where I packed enough snow under the skidplate to lift the tires off the ground, and the only slides were intentional. I imagine the same will be true of a RWD cargo van (with some weight over the drive wheels). Pick the right tire and you can use them year-round without harm or shortening the lifespan, added noise or hurting the roads. We're closing in on the end of our 2nd set of Nokian WR tires (with the WR2 on currently). Not much need for them down here in middle GA, though they are phenomenal in the rain/wet. I did see a 4% decrease in fuel economy over touring tires though.

I can't speak to the other states but here in Western Wyoming ice is normal. Highways bare off but most of the other roads are hard packed and frozen. Add some sun and that top layer is an ice rink. You are fine when the temps stay below 20 but anything above that and below 32 and your tires have a hard time getting a good grip. Combine that with most of the roads being hilly and I am really happy with my studs.
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:23 AM
 
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Again, I have to say that for everyday driving (going to & from work, driving on the highways from town to town, etc.) that I have never had studded tires and have never needed them. That is in over 35 years of driving myself. Many of the miles I've put on have been throughout the states of Wyo & Mont. I think this is coming down to personal preference.
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Old 12-04-2012, 04:06 PM
 
Location: Cabin Creek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georgiainwyo View Post
Again, I have to say that for everyday driving (going to & from work, driving on the highways from town to town, etc.) that I have never had studded tires and have never needed them. That is in over 35 years of driving myself. Many of the miles I've put on have been throughout the states of Wyo & Mont. I think this is coming down to personal preference.
same here but have chained up a couple times in 35 years once on interstate 80
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:38 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georgiainwyo View Post
Again, I have to say that for everyday driving (going to & from work, driving on the highways from town to town, etc.) that I have never had studded tires and have never needed them. That is in over 35 years of driving myself. Many of the miles I've put on have been throughout the states of Wyo & Mont. I think this is coming down to personal preference.
Are you driving a 4 wheel drive?

I am driving a front wheel drive that sips gas and cost me half of what it would have cost for a awd or 4wd.

I was glad for my studs this morning. We had fresh snow yesterday and it started raining during the night. temp at just above freezing and the hill was a sheet of ice. No studs and I would have had to chain up to get to the highway.
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Old 12-05-2012, 08:40 AM
 
1,872 posts, read 3,958,907 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paintersspouse View Post
Are you driving a 4 wheel drive?

I am driving a front wheel drive that sips gas and cost me half of what it would have cost for a awd or 4wd.

I was glad for my studs this morning. We had fresh snow yesterday and it started raining during the night. temp at just above freezing and the hill was a sheet of ice. No studs and I would have had to chain up to get to the highway.
At this time I have a small AWD SUV, what I consider cost efficient. I have only had this vehicle for a couple of years. Before that I had smaller FWD cars with the exception of a couple of years that I had a gas guzzler large 4wd SUV. The only time I ever actually went off the road on ice was when I was in the large SUV and hit black ice. I was admittedly going too fast and when I hit the ice my rear end fishtailed, I let off the accelerator and then slowing slipped into the median. This was on an interstate. Thank goodness I wasn't hurt and neither was the vehicle. My FWD cars did just as well on the highways as my current small SUV. I had only put my big SUV into 4wd a couple of times and that was because I had parked in a place that had a bit too much snow and I needed it to get out. If I hadn't had a 4wd I wouldn't have chosen to park where I did. Same way with my AWD I have now. Another example is my son, who has a FWD older Honda Accord. He spent 3 years traveling every day, up to 1000+ miles per week for his job. He did fine with all weather tires. One time he got "blown" off the icy road when it was so windy that they closed the road right after that happened.

Again, I'll say that I think this is personal preference. Whatever works for each person, go for it!

P.S. The reason I have my little SUV now rather than a car is that I like to ride a little higher, I guess it gives me a feeling of security the older I get! Also, I can fit my grandkids' carseats better in it than in a small car. For me, it is worth the little bit more I pay for gas.

Last edited by georgiainwyo; 12-05-2012 at 08:42 AM.. Reason: Additon
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Old 12-06-2012, 05:24 PM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,696 posts, read 39,977,707 times
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In all my years in WYoming, I have drove:
1970 Ford F350 2 wd
1970 Ford F250 4wd
1976 Toyota Celica, RWD
1976 Chevy S10 2wd short box
1968 Buick Electra 225, RWD
1997 Lincoln MK VIII, RWD
1985 Ford F250 4WD

I have never had studded tires because I didn't need them. I have carried chains and cables and have had to use them once every 5 years or so and that was because the state required it. I could have driven without them, the new snow on the interstate was 5 inches deep, absolutely no wind.

I first came to Wyoming in 1972 building I-90. I have never been in the ditch unless I intentially went in to pull somebody out. I have never owned a Front Wheel Drive, they are worthless. Well, not totally. They are fine on roads and you are inexperienced. When the gates are closed, our highway patrol still patrol the highway looking for stranded motorists. They drive REAR WHEEL DRIVE cars. Must be a reason.

I never even got the Toyota Celica stuck. I have never put snow tires on my vehicles. I always bought an all terrain type or all purpose, less aggressive tire.

Anything you drive into Wyoming is fine. But remember this. When it's a bad storm (happens maybe twice a year) get the hell off the road, you have no business out there. Half your speed and double your stopping distance. You will be fine.
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