replace your wood stove

[sunsprit]

Originally Posted by MattieJensen

If you own your home outright (as we do in NM), there's no reason to have insurance. Especially so if it's made of cement block, poured concrete, or metal.

We get our heat from thermal hot water springs. I just wonder when the EPA will want to regulate them>

I'm not aware of being able to buy a Wyoming homeowner's insurance policy that doesn't have physical property and general liability coverages as a package.

So, if you want homeowner's general liability coverage you also get structure and contents coverage. Even if you own your home outright (as I do, too), wouldn't you want coverage for loss or damage to your contents?

We're looking at loss potential from many possible causations. Theft? Vandalism? Acts of nature (windstorms/hail damage get a lot of roofs in our area)? Inside the structure fire? Flooding from a broken water line, perhaps a failed diswasher, clothes washer, or plumbing failure?

What about accidents/personal injuries on your property? Absent liability coverage, you're very exposed to a potential wide range of incidents which could have devastating financial effect, and there's a reason why they're called "accidents" ... you cannot 100% eliminate the potential of some defect or oversight being found at fault for an injury on your property, even if the injured party was tresspassing or was an invited guest or family member. What if your dog injures somebody or their livestock or pet?

Much as I'd like to not have the expense, I can't justify not having a homeowner's policy on any residential property that I own.

[ElkHunter]

Originally Posted by MattieJensen

Wait just a minute here. The EPA doesn't extend it's authority into Canada!

Read it again, I don't think he meant the EPA was in Canada. He simply pointed out that there only heat source was wood stove. If the EPA has it's way, there won't be any wood stoves here. It was just an example.

[MattieJensen]

Originally Posted by sunsprit

I'm not aware of being able to buy a Wyoming homeowner's insurance policy that doesn't have physical property and general liability coverages as a package. Much as I'd like to not have the expense, I can't justify not having a homeowner's policy on any residential property that I own.

If there's an accident on your property (someone falls on the driveway) and sues you - chances are it won't be for the liability minimum of your policy. People sue for any reason - and it's almost always for a half-million or more. I don't have it and I don't want it. I live far off the paved road and my nearest neighbor is five miles away - so it's not like I'm inviting you to visit and fall down and break your hip.
It's called self-insurance.

ElkHunter: When I read the OP's statement it was about someone living in Canada.

[monkeywrenching]

Originally Posted by sunsprit

You've just proved my point about the insurance view of residential structures and their liability.

While you profess an exceptional situation where your residence will not be in the marketplace for at least two generations, I'd observe two points:

1) while you may never wish to sell this property, circumstances change due to many factors, and you or your heirs may need to do so.

2) your mortgage free residential property built without code requirements or inspection represents less than a minute fraction of the real estate built in Wyoming. In my experience, most folk seeking to buy a residential property do want a mortgage and insurance on the property. Even if they are affluent enough to be a cash buyer, they still want homeowner's insurance and the peace of mind that comes with knowing a structure was properly designed and built.


As EH points out, even if building codes weren't required ... he (and I, and many others) would still consider these to be the minimum guidelines for construction here. It's what I'd want to live in for the concerns about safety and habitability. And I'd be touting that as a feature of the residence if it were on the market in an area with homes that weren't built with such concerns or attention to detail.

yes you are correct, most people would want a mortgage and insurance as required by the bank. I did not.
while reading yours and others posts, I did spend a bit of time finding an insurance company that was able to give me liability for my land, just not the home.

I am fine with that.

[ElkHunter]

Originally Posted by MattieJensen

If there's an accident on your property (someone falls on the driveway) and sues you - chances are it won't be for the liability minimum of your policy. People sue for any reason - and it's almost always for a half-million or more. I don't have it and I don't want it. I live far off the paved road and my nearest neighbor is five miles away - so it's not like I'm inviting you to visit and fall down and break your hip.
It's called self-insurance.

ElkHunter: When I read the OP's statement it was about someone living in Canada.

It wasn't long ago, that you didn't see any lawsuits for injuries, unless it was a blatant problem and the person responsible didn't want to help at all. Like you say, with the influx of outsiders, more and more, lawsuits are becoming more common.

But, we're getting a little off topic. The point is that regardless of how "Off the grid" a person is, the lack of following code will come back to get you, at some point, be it from insurance, sale of a place, or even the EPA knocking on your door because their infrared heat sensors detected a hotbox in your dwelling. I could take a Navy Helo and fly from Sheridan to Casper at max speed of 105 knots, and tell you the exact location of every hotbox within 1 mile, either side of my flight path. They don't have to drive up to your house and peek in the windows.

If the EPA gets serious about this, and it appears that they are starting to, they are going to determine compliance and there's not a good method of hiding it. No Trespassing signs only keep wandering idiots from gaining access, it doesn't even slow down the EPA, who doesn't appear to care about laws.

[MattieJensen]

If the EPA can overide Congressional authority - then it's time to be rid the EPA.

If push comes to shove, I'll go further off-grid than comply with a bogus "law"

[CptnRn]

Originally Posted by ElkHunter

It wasn't long ago, that you didn't see any lawsuits for injuries, unless it was a blatant problem and the person responsible didn't want to help at all. Like you say, with the influx of outsiders, more and more, lawsuits are becoming more common.

Law schools are graduating far more lawyers than there are jobs for, so many of them are out on the streets looking for opportunities to sue someone, just in order to make a living.

What a ridiculous society we are evolving into...

[draagyn013]

Just the slightest whiff of wood smoke makes my sinuses flare up and I've smoked cigars and cigarettes for twenty years with no issues.That tells me right there how toxic that wood smoke is. Isnt your health worth more than saving a few bucks on heating bills.