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My wife and I are considering a move to Douglas. Jobs are lined up, so no worry there. However, we're running into a few problems/questions.
How is the drive between Douglas and Casper? I will be attending school at UW in Casper, a couple days a week (if I can't take them all online) and the winter drive sounds challenging. We have a 4WD truck, and a car that gets great gas mileage (but struggles in the snow).
Also, finding housing in the area has been hard. There are only a couple of apartments available, and none of which we qualified for (income restricted) or caught our eye. It's just the two of us, so we don't need tons of room. We have been considering buying a small home or a town house.
My wife and I are considering a move to Douglas. Jobs are lined up, so no worry there. However, we're running into a few problems/questions.
How is the drive between Douglas and Casper? I will be attending school at UW in Casper, a couple days a week (if I can't take them all online) and the winter drive sounds challenging. We have a 4WD truck, and a car that gets great gas mileage (but struggles in the snow).
Also, finding housing in the area has been hard. There are only a couple of apartments available, and none of which we qualified for (income restricted) or caught our eye. It's just the two of us, so we don't need tons of room. We have been considering buying a small home or a town house.
Thanks in advance for the help!
I can't speak for housing but the drive is all interstate. I think it's 50 miles to Casper, someone here can correct me if I'm wrong. The roads can get very treacherous during the winter. Definitely pack an emergency preparedness kit. Also be aware there are sometimes closures, however that is rarely for a long period of time. Be aware also that even though the roads can be dangerous, Highway Patrol is around there frequently and snow plow drivers do a pretty good job. It's also a well traveled stretch.
That drive (Douglas to Casper) can be tough during the winter, although usually it will be dry.
When it isn't you will want to take the 4WD truck for sure. There will also be a couple of times
each winter when I-25 is closed between D & C. Quite a few Douglas residents commute to
Casper, and they generally take the two lanes (Fetterman Rd-93 to 95-to Glenrock and on in to
Casper) when the Interstate is closed or really bad. It's further, but they do it quite a bit.
My company pickup is an F250 Super Duty Crew and I have had him in 4WD on that stretch a
couple of times each winter. They redid the pavement on I-25 near Natty Bridge and actually
made it slicker when there is snow on it! I only couldn't get to Casper once-both roads closed.
We have a guy does that commute daily and I only remember him having to stay in Casper one
time. UW Casper is probably up at Casper College-just above downtown.
Douglas is a nice town. It has become more expensive with the energy boom there, and many
miners at Antelope Rochelle live there as well. So housing is a little pricey. The slump doesn't
seem to have affected Douglas as much as Casper or Gillette, though it has had an impact on
Douglas as well. Seems like avg. house is a little south of 200, but there's more of them above
200 than below. I'm guessing the ones below 200 move pretty fast. Depending on where you
are from, housing in WY can be a "dirty ride" (rodeo expression). The other stuff looks good-
no state income tax, low prop taxes, low sales taxes, no traffic, etc. But when I travel in the Midwest, I notice that the nicest house in many towns would only buy one in WY that needs work or maybe indoor plumbing. There are also a few condo/townhouses in Douglas. You have
essentials in Douglas-Safeway, Shopko, a new Tractor Supply, but the drive to Casper is
usually only 40-45 minutes. Good luck with the new jobs. Hope you are able to find a place.
That place is up in Clearmont; a cozy little 'startup' cow/calf operation who never seem to find (or keep) quite the calibre of hired-help that they're wanting (or needing)...QUITE a bit of a ways north of Casper...lol
Annnnnnd it takes a little more than 45 mins to SAFELY get from Douglas to Casper...
...unless you happen to be driving a Lamborghini Huracan, Bugatti Veyron, or a well-tuned Ford GT...
...I think my Kawasaki (with a full-tank of high-octane gas) MIGHT-could make it in 20-mins (plus change) IF they had it blocked-off from start to finish...and IF I did'nt have a hefty-breakfast, that morning...and IF I was'nt blasting through a 'typical' Wyoming head (or side) wind...
But in all honesty, it's mostly the Colorado drivers (multi-tasking on cell-phones with cruise-control pegged at 95mph) and the occasional illiterate semi-truck-drivers you have to worry about. For THOSE types, speed-limit signs are little more than 'polite-suggestions'...or so it would seem...rain or shine, dry or ice-covered roads...it matters-not...they are GETTIN' AFTER IT !
Last edited by Ltdumbear; 05-21-2017 at 05:29 PM..
a couple of observations about commuting in this area:
1) if the snow on the paved roads is deep enough to need a 4x4 truck for passage, it's going to be in conditions far beyond what you'd call prudent for a commute. Instead ...
2) most of the inclement weather driving conditions will be ranging from some slush to packed snow to black ice. Black ice is better dealt with in FWD or AWD cars with appropriate winter tires. Slush, OTOH ...
3) presents an entirely different set of driving challenges. Far and away more significant than the traction issues will be the visibility concerns; ie, every time you go to pass or are passed by a semi, you will be driving through a zero visibility wall of splashed up slush or snow. IMO, most of the vehicles you'll see off the side of the road, or their tracks of having taken the excursion ... are not because of loss of control due to traction. They are typically caused by folk simply driving off the road because they couldn't see where they were going. Sometimes, they'll simply drive off the road. Sometimes, they'll lose traction/control because they overcorrect trying to get or stay on the road that they couldn't see. Unless you're driving a semi and can look over the top of the wall of the obscuration, it doesn't matter what you're driving ... including a monster 4x4 dedicated to deep snow conditions. You will be frequently challenged by the zero visibility of this commute at times.
4) even in warmer weather with the downpours that can present during non-snow weather, the same moving "walls of water" splashed up by the semi's are daunting. Case in point, Mrs Sun drove home from Gillette this last week in such conditions and had numerous encounters with the semi's and the wall of water they splash up obstructing her visibility. Intimidated by these conditions, it was prudent to wait until the torrential rains stopped and the roads had a chance to dry out. The delay in her travels was worth the time/safety trade-off.
5) The Casper-Douglas area frequently turns nasty just East of Casper, only a few miles out of town. Yes, the roads are officially "open" and the semi's keep on 'plugging along. But to say that these are tame driving conditions during inclement weather driving is very misleading. They are difficult, at best ... white knuckle drives even for experienced drivers in these conditions. I've personally had winter days driving around Casper without any difficulty even though there was snow/ice on the roads ... but where I-25 turned East after the last exits in town, the prevailing conditions turned to sh*t. It's been a very challenging drive at that point and I've stopped more than few times at the Wilkins State Park to wait for improving conditions. Even though it's posted for no overnight camping, I've been joined a few times by other travelers who have camped there until storm fronts passed through. At that, I've had improved conditions there and ventured back onto I-25, only to have bad conditions force me off the road by Orin Junction, where there's another roadside reststop. Thence again to Glendo, only 15 miles of slow progress and prudent to be off the road for awhile again. Let me repeat that: it's not the loss of traction and driving control at reasonable road speeds, oft-times 45-60 mph ... it's the momentary loss of visibility while passing or being passed by the larger traffic that is the primary problem.
6) you can "you tube" search for videos of these conditions of winter driving in Wyoming.
7) yes, there are folk who do this commute for work, just like folk do the Cheyenne-Laramie or Cheyenne-Fort Collins commute. But don't let them make it sound like it's a "piece of cake" that you can rely upon even when the roads are open. It's not. And don't count on the alternate surface roads to be in much better conditions ... the storm fronts don't know to stop at I-25 or the State Highway just so the other road is in better shape. Even with the best efforts of the road maintenance crews, Wyoming winds blow snow around to obscure the roadway or wet it down for black ice formation.
8) don't forget to factor in your commute costs when comparing rental cost in Casper to a Douglas location. The differential might not be as big as you think, if at all, when you're commuting hundreds of miles per week.
PS: I have a neighbor who has been a WHP and a Deputy in Laramie and Albany counties for over 25 years. He didn't have kind things to say about folk who rely upon these commutes to get to work every day. Counting upon WYDOT to close the roads as the measure of when it's time to not travel is pushing your luck. It's not a big deal ... until the day comes when it is a big deal with an accident. Is it really worth this repeated risk to you on a daily basis for months on end each winter?
PPS: you didn't mention what your car is, but if it's a FWD car of almost any make, it will be a superior vehicle on black ice roads when equipped with decent winter tires compared to your 4x4 truck.
Ltdumbear- Hah. Yeah, I know where the ranch is...and they do seem to look for help.
I didn't mean it was near Casper. I just think the bunk houses look "affordable" considering.
Actually, it is 48 miles Douglas to Casper at 80 MPH speed limit until outside of Casper. So
if the highway is dry, you can do it in 45 minutes. I don't go over the speed limit. I have
Kawasaki's too, but mine are fourwheelers. Would take about an hour and a half on them.
Sunsprit- I am a fourth generation native. I have driven all over this state all my life, in all
kinds of conditions. In my work I travel 8 to 20 states, 70 thousand miles a year. I prefer
to rely on a 4WD pickup. Doesn't mean front-wheel drive won't work as well. The guy who
drove from Douglas to Casper recently retired after a lifetime career. He is also a WY native.
I bet he could care less whether a trooper thinks he shouldn't have made that commute.
Wow! Thanks everyone for the quick responses. Everytime we have visited Wyoming, (especially the Casper/Douglas area) we are impressed with how nice and helpful the people are. Thanks for all the help and advice!
I should've added at the beginning. I will only be going to school there for 2 more years. I want to do as much online, from home (Douglas) as possible, but will be required to have a few classes in Casper. If we enjoy our time in Douglas/area (which we think we will) we will probably call it home, and settle down there.
"My company pickup is an F250 Super Duty Crew and I have had him in 4WD on that stretch a
couple of times each winter. They redid the pavement on I-25 near Natty Bridge and actually
made it slicker when there is snow on it! I only couldn't get to Casper once-both roads closed.
We have a guy does that commute daily and I only remember him having to stay in Casper one
time. UW Casper is probably up at Casper College-just above downtown."
I'll be doing that's stretch in the exact same truck.
It is good to hear that he only had to stay in Casper one time. We have family friends who live in Casper, so if the road is ever bad or closed I won't be afraid to just spend the night in Casper.
UW Casper is at Casper College.
"Douglas is a nice town. It has become more expensive with the energy boom there, and many
miners at Antelope Rochelle live there as well. So housing is a little pricey. The slump doesn't
seem to have affected Douglas as much as Casper or Gillette, though it has had an impact on
Douglas as well. Seems like avg. house is a little south of 200, but there's more of them above
200 than below. I'm guessing the ones below 200 move pretty fast. Depending on where you
are from, housing in WY can be a "dirty ride" (rodeo expression). The other stuff looks good-
no state income tax, low prop taxes, low sales taxes, no traffic, etc. But when I travel in the Midwest, I notice that the nicest house in many towns would only buy one in WY that needs work or maybe indoor plumbing. There are also a few condo/townhouses in Douglas. You have
essentials in Douglas-Safeway, Shopko, a new Tractor Supply, but the drive to Casper is
usually only 40-45 minutes. Good luck with the new jobs. Hope you are able to find a place."
The housing has seemed expensive for what you get (atleast what we're used to).
My wife is curious about the shopping in Douglas. Something I forgot to ask in my original post. Is it hard to find groceries there? Going to school in Casper, I could pick up stuff while there, but if we need a gallon of milk, would our options be slim? Thanks for the help, wyoprairie.
Sunspirit-
Thanks for the help!
Maybe I'm not understanding you correctly, but you make it seem like the drive would be too hard to make it worth it. We've asked lots of people, and seem to only get 2 answers. People who say it's nearly impossible from November-February, and those who say we'll be fine if I take it safe.
Although not from Wyoming, We're not new to driving in snow and ice. We've both grown up driving in it. My wife's car is FWD, but we've considered trading it in for an AWD car. We'll probably see how this upcoming winter is first, though. Snow tires will be put on both vehicles.
I'm not afraid of spending a night in my truck/Casper, or missing a class because of road conditions. I'd rather be safe. My wife and I both will be working in Douglas, so living in Casper didn't seem logical to us. Neither did Glenrock, but we might consider that.
We have driven through Wyoming this winter a couple of times during storms, and found it similar, maybe a touch worse, than what we're used to (cheap tires didn't help though). However, we never drove this stretch of road when the was snow on it, just rain.
Keeping an emergency kit in our vehicles is a great idea! I usually keep the basic stuff in them, but I'll be sure to add more to it.
Groceries not a problem. Safeway is a big chain store. Douglas Grocery is the independent.
Also convenience stores. Douglas is what in Wyoming parlance is known as a "good-sized
town" I've heard this term all my life, and yet have no idea exactly what the criteria is....
but Casper, of course, is one of our two "big cities"
Sunspirit-
Thanks for the help!
Maybe I'm not understanding you correctly, but you make it seem like the drive would be too hard to make it worth it. We've asked lots of people, and seem to only get 2 answers. People who say it's nearly impossible from November-February, and those who say we'll be fine if I take it safe.
I'm not saying that the winter months drive "would be too hard" all the time, every day.
Quite the contrary, there will be many winter days when the roads are quite driveable, perhaps even mostly clear to clear.
The problem that presents is those inclement weather days during the winter months when the roads aren't clear or just hard-packed (which is very driveable at higher speeds with decent tires).
The conflict presents when you "need" to be somewhere, such as class or work ... and you are presented with a rather difficult drive due to slush, loose snow, and/or black ice. You've got slick surfaces typically aggravated with the oft-times limited visibility due to traffic and/or blowing snow.
Anecdotally, there are people who have done this type of Wyoming commute successfully for decades.
But just as anecdotally, there are thousands of people who haven't been so successful. Those are the folk that my neighbor mentions ... the hundreds of times over the years that he's had to respond to off-road excursions/accidents, and injury accidents involving people with "get there itis", usually a work commute.
In that trip that I mentioned where I was heading back to Cheyenne from a relatively easy driving winter day in Casper and found it prudent to stop several times to allow for improving weather/road conditions ... I counted over 35 vehicles off the road, most of them in the stretch of I-25 between Casper and Orin Jct. There were two injury accidents involving multiple vehicles just South of Douglas, one which already had emergency response vehicles on the scene with the road closed down to passing the wrecker/ambulance/wrecked vehicles in the left lane on the road shoulder to the right. The 2nd accident I saw that day was Northbound I-25 and had just happened. Some folk had already stopped to render assistance and shortly afterward there were emergency responders heading northward to that.
I, too, have been traveling this region since 1965 ... many years as a specialty automotive repair business, and since 1992 as a manufacturer's rep of industrial MRO products in a 5-state territory. Most recently, I was a manufacturer's rep calling on every automotive, truck, training facility, and fleet maintenance repair shop in WY, northern CO, and western SD and NE. I had 1,800 "doors" to call upon, and my top tier clients got called on twice a year. So I was driving around 50,000 miles/year. It was a rare winter storm event when I didn't see vehicles off the road or the tracks in the snow where vehicles had been towed out from an off-road excursion. With the ability to set my own appointment schedule, I rarely continued my travels in the worst of the conditions. So when I was seeing a lot of accidents in places such as I-25 south of Casper, it was in the "better" of the winter driving conditions ... yet there were still a lot of accidents on the roads then.
I'd also mention that I'm a GA pilot traveling the region with my C182. On those clear winter VFR days, I've done a lot of traveling through the region when the highways were still a snarl due to slick driving conditions and those localized ground storms on the road where the roadways get obscured and/or covered with enough moisture to refreeze into black ice. I've seen a lot of vehicles off-road and accidents on the roads in those winter travel days from the air ... many more miles of observation from that platform than I'd see by driving through the area that day. It's been a great tool in my bag of resources to be able to reach clients throughout the region fairly quickly when travel by road could be problematic.
The decision to make a 100 mile commute in this area is yours to make. You can gamble that you'll be one of the ones that does it for years without any incident ... although don't kid yourself, it will have days where the drive is extremely hazardous and you'll be more than thankful when you arrive safely at your destination. Or you may be one of the ones that doesn't have such success. Only you can weigh the risk factors and your priorities. Keep in mind that it's not a Nov-Feb time frame ... it's more like an Oct-May time period where risky travel, road advisories, road closures can occur ... witness the most recent storm fronts of last week.
PS: After years of driving MB diesel cars through the region, I changed over to Audi Quattro cars and appreciated the inclement weather road capabilities of AWD cars. More recently, I've changed over to Subaru OBW's, and they do yeoman service in our inclement weather driving conditions for a reasonable cost. But most FWD cars will do quite well here on paved roads with appropriate tires. If it's nasty enough that such a vehicle is having difficulty, it's really past the time when it would be prudent to stop and wait out the conditions.
Last edited by sunsprit; 05-21-2017 at 10:56 PM..
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