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When I think of covenants, I think of only one thing. That's my land. Not our land. If you want it to be our land, you need to make some of the payments. And if you do, then I'll listen to what we can do and can't do, on Our land.
But for now. It's my land. I paid for it. It is my castle. Stay away.
RIGHT ON!!!!!! That is why I can't IMAGINE why WYOMINGITES would even consider purchasing in these areas. I know those purchasing at Copperleaf (the "wildlife friendly" gated community in Wapiti valley) are mostly from out of state because they are accustomed to having their rights stomped on. WELL SAID ELKHUNTER!!!!!!!!
HERE is an example of what we run into all the time when we go out of city limits to where ppl target practice all the time. Fri. my son took about 6 handguns out there & there were 2 men & a young teenager from Michigan out there (Red Lake). Son asked if they minded if another shooter stepped up & they were welcoming & asked what he was shooting. He started listing off his list of what he had brought this time & their mouths dropped open. Apparently in Mich you can only have ONE handgun in the vehicle at a time & in plain site. Of course in Wyo you can have 30 in a vehicle but they better be in plain sight unless you have a concealed permit, which my son has for no other reason than if one slides under the seat or gets something put on top of a gun he's not in trouble. But we ARE STILL ALLOWED to take as many LEGAL guns as we want on any trip in the state & yes - they can be loaded & even one chambered. So that is what I mean that ppl are already used to having their rights trompled on - what's another covenant that tells you you can only have a green or red roof? Or can only paint your house one of 5 specific colors? Or what your landscaping can contain? MOST Wyomingites - including several multi-millionaires that we personally know (such as the Simpsons) would not buy in such an area.
Kristynwy, VERY WELL SAID!!! And I can tell you if I purchased land out of city limits - I don't CARE where - I better be able to target practice as that is a serious right of ours in Wyo that most of us take very seriously. Some of these C&Rs, in the guise of keeping things at a certain level of aethetics, tromp all over your constitutional rights. ESP if the community is out of town. I have to believe that anybody who would buy into that sort of community is being bamboozled & wants somebody else to make all the rules & enforce them so they don't have to be bothered with going face to face with your neighbor to work out any differences. That ability to work things out with your neighbors has been a very special thing about Wyo & these sorts of communities sort of strip that action from taking place, from my point of view. You can just show up at some meeting with a copy of te "rules" & point fingers so a commitee or group of ppl do what we have always taken care of on our own. I don't know cause I can't even start to understand why anybody would buy into these sorts of communities - is out of my realm of even a concept to me
You are exactly right! When it borders on violating our constitutional rights, there is no other word for it but ridiculous! Wyoming is not for the faint of heart, I can't imagine how people handle living here if they can't even learn to knock on the door and talk to their neighbor???
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElkHunter
When I think of covenants, I think of only one thing. That's my land. Not our land. If you want it to be our land, you need to make some of the payments. And if you do, then I'll listen to what we can do and can't do, on Our land.
But for now. It's my land. I paid for it. It is my castle. Stay away.
Amen Elkhunter! You summed it up very well is just a couple sentences!
RIGHT ON!!!!!! That is why I can't IMAGINE why WYOMINGITES would even consider purchasing in these areas. I know those purchasing at Copperleaf (the "wildlife friendly" gated community in Wapiti valley) are mostly from out of state because they are accustomed to having their rights stomped on. WELL SAID ELKHUNTER!!!!!!!!
HERE is an example of what we run into all the time when we go out of city limits to where ppl target practice all the time. Fri. my son took about 6 handguns out there & there were 2 men & a young teenager from Michigan out there (Red Lake). Son asked if they minded if another shooter stepped up & they were welcoming & asked what he was shooting. He started listing off his list of what he had brought this time & their mouths dropped open. Apparently in Mich you can only have ONE handgun in the vehicle at a time & in plain site. Of course in Wyo you can have 30 in a vehicle but they better be in plain sight unless you have a concealed permit, which my son has for no other reason than if one slides under the seat or gets something put on top of a gun he's not in trouble. But we ARE STILL ALLOWED to take as many LEGAL guns as we want on any trip in the state & yes - they can be loaded & even one chambered. So that is what I mean that ppl are already used to having their rights trompled on - what's another covenant that tells you you can only have a green or red roof? Or can only paint your house one of 5 specific colors? Or what your landscaping can contain? MOST Wyomingites - including several multi-millionaires that we personally know (such as the Simpsons) would not buy in such an area.
You are so right on! We moved out here for our rights to be respected, especially our gun rights... That is what draws people to this state.
That is what irks me about some of these subdivision, they attract the opposite out of state mentality, 1. that are used to their rights being violated 2. they don't mind their rights being violated, or actually support it 3. then they try an impose these silly regulations on the rest of us later...
I am glad that some of the wealthier Wyoming residents won't buy into these restricted subdivisions also... that really says something...
I am not against out of state people coming in. Heck I won't even claim where I grew sometimes because I am ashamed of what my old state has become, and I moved out to Wyoming for the small town atmosphere and to live in a place the actually respected my constitutional rights... I have no desire to change Wyoming, I would like it to stay unchanged... but the more developments of this nature over power our smaller population, the more I fear people imposing "paved roads" "controlled neighborhoods" because money talks in the end... I always say, what happened to the good old days ya know... That is what made Wyoming what it is in the first place...
"That is what irks me about some of these subdivision, they attract the opposite out of state mentality, 1. that are used to their rights being violated 2. they don't mind their rights being violated, or actually support it 3. then they try an impose these silly regulations on the rest of us later...
I am glad that some of the wealthier Wyoming residents won't buy into these restricted subdivisions also... that really says something... "
No one is imposing these rules on you. You need not be own or be part of "those developments. CCR's can also be changed if the majority of the owners wish it.
I know many "wealthy" who live in and own within these restrictive subdivisions. Again that is the beauty of it all, it is their "right" to chose those subdivisions if that if what they want.
You may think your mentality is the same as "the state mentality" but I would say it is no longer the predominant one.
Kristynwy Mon. June 2, 2008 12:30pm "That is what irks me about some of these subdivision, they attract the opposite out of state mentality, 1. that are used to their rights being violated 2. they don't mind their rights being violated, or actually support it 3. then they try an impose these silly regulations on the rest of us later...
I am glad that some of the wealthier Wyoming residents won't buy into these restricted subdivisions also... that really says something... "
No one is imposing these rules on you. You need not be own or be part of "those developments. CCR's can also be changed if the majority of the owners wish it.
I know many "wealthy" who live in and own within these restrictive subdivisions. Again that is the beauty of it all, it is their "right" to chose those subdivisions if that if what they want.
You may think your mentality is the same as "the state mentality" but I would say it is no longer the predominant one.
I am not saying they are imposing these rules on me, I am not buying in that kind of subdivision. But it indirectly affects people like my family and other families in Wyoming. It may not right away, but give it several years and it will. Unless families stand up for their property rights. I respect those that don't agree with me. I have tried to make that very obvious through out my replies.
I really beg to differ with you on state mentality. I would never suggest the whole states "thinks like Kristy" however... I think the majority of this state is fed up with people coming here and trying to change it. I say leave Wyoming alone. I am not against progress however I don't think it's right to come here and "suburbanize and modernize" what the locals don't want to do...
Maybe in Jackson.... but the rest of the state I would say gets very resentful of out of staters trying to change the way of life here. I can remember when I was moving out of state, that was my very fear, because I was the newbie out of stater. However everyone told me if you come to Wyoming and try to assimilate not change the culture you'll fit right in. And I can say everyone that told me that has been exactly right. I have met more nice people here than anywhere else I have lived; that would literally give you the shirt of their backs, invite you into their home for dinner, sit and chat. That is part of what I love about Wyoming...
What a sad sad day it will be when/if that changes... I bet if you went all over the state of Wyoming and asked the majority of the locals what they think, they would all have a common interest. Preserving Wyoming as it is, not as how the rest of the country wants it to be..
Look at the people in Cody that stood up and fought against the Copperleaf going in. Yes Money talked and the locals were ignored and weren't listened to, but they had a right to their opinion just like anyone else...
Soldier Creek Ranch is located in the County, not in the city limits of Sheridan. There are no Covenants in Soldier Creeks CC&Rs that are duplicates of County ordanences as far as I can see.
You are talking about someones Constitutional Rights being taken away. Let me paint a very simple picture for you. You go anywhere in WY and purchase our little piece of heaven. Your piece of land you and your spouse have dreamed about, saved and planned for. It really does not matter if it is 5,10, 20 or 50 acres. The point is you have YOUR land and you can absolutely do anything you want and build any thing you want and and put any thing you want on YOUR property. No rules no restrictions, do whatever the hell you want, anytime you want. Now 1 years later you have invested your savings and built a beautiful little ranch home with a barn and corral. You have spent countless hours sweating to build this place. You have landscaped it and it is picture perfect. You and your and your family are able to relax and enjoy this little piece of heaven you built with that hard earned money.
Now along comes the neighbor on the parcel of ground right next door. They seem like nice enough folks. The problem is they just don't have the same idea of a nice place as you do.
Because they purchased the land on a shoestring budget all they can afford to put on it is a 20 year old used trailer house. Then they start bringing all sorts of other junk and putting it all over the property. Pretty soon it is a complete eye sore and it is sitting right across your fence. Everytime you look out your window you now have to look over that mess to see what used to be a beautifull mountain view. Again these are nice folks that are enjoyable to be around. The problem is the junk and the mess just does not bother them.
Or maybe they START to build a small house and then run out of money. So the house sits half finished with building material laying all over the place. Everytime they come out to the house from town they haul more, lets say stuff. Pretty soon there is stufff stack all over the place. The house is only a shell for years, little by little more and more stuff just keeps stacking up all over the place. They are still living in town so again this really does not bother them.
Maybe they don't build anything on the property except a big Shed. Then they start bringing out trailer load after trailer load of cattle. They decide it is a perfect holding area and feed lot for cattle they plan to sell at the local sale barn. Now you have 150 cattle right across the fence up wind from your beautiful home.
I think i have made my point.
These are all great folks that everyone enjoys being around, they just dont care about the junk or what they are doing on THEIR property or how it might be affecting you or your enjoyment of your place. After all it is THEIR PROPERTY and they can whatever the hell they want.
That is exactly why I am buying in Soldier Creek in the state of WY. That is exactly why I am not buying in Oregon or any other state with all of the ridiculous ordinances and laws. I am not worried about one of my nieghbors bending the CC&R from time to time. I am not the kind of person that bothers with such trivial things. I am a live and let live kind of person. I just want to make sure those kinds of things described above do not happen to me and my family. Because i am the guy that has saved for years to be able to a piece of land to build a small ranch house and enjoy the outdoors a little without street lights and pavement.
I am not a rich person. So I can not afford to go buy 300 acres out on the West side of town. Believe me i would love to be able to do that. In that case of course I would not be doing that in an area with CC&R. Because I would have plenty of land as a buffer for me from such issues.
As I state in my first post they are simple common sense covenants for common sense folks. It is not for everyone.
Take a look at the place about 10 miles East of town with all the junk. She's been fined and given a deadline to have everything out of there.
Also, you have to look at the Comprehensive Planning Zone. It's an imaginary future city limits. In that area, you have to meet city ordinances on building, clutter, etc. That imaginary line moves out each year and incompases more area. I haven't looked at it in a number of years, but when I did look at it it extended up to the top of the hill by the water treatment area. That was 7 or 8 years ago. Won't be long before it incompases the area on Soldier Creek that's going to be a sub division.
Soldier Creek Ranch is located in the County, not in the city limits of Sheridan. There are no Covenants in Soldier Creeks CC&Rs that are duplicates of County ordanences as far as I can see.
You are talking about someones Constitutional Rights being taken away.
That is exactly why I am buying in Soldier Creek in the state of WY. That is exactly why I am not buying in Oregon or any other state with all of the ridiculous ordinances and laws. I am not worried about one of my neighbors bending the CC&R from time to time. I am not the kind of person that bothers with such trivial things. I am a live and let live kind of person. I just want to make sure those kinds of things described above do not happen to me and my family. Because i am the guy that has saved for years to be able to a piece of land to build a small ranch house and enjoy the outdoors a little without street lights and pavement.
I am not a rich person. So I can not afford to go buy 300 acres out on the West side of town. Believe me i would love to be able to do that. In that case of course I would not be doing that in an area with CC&R. Because I would have plenty of land as a buffer for me from such issues.
As I state in my first post they are simple common sense covenants for common sense folks. It is not for everyone.
I respect your opinion. But I gather you are not originally from Wyoming?(I mean this as no offense, I am have lived her for only a short time myself so far) I live literally down the road from this place however... I have copy of the covenants with me as I type. They called them Covenants in the ERA handout that is along the fence line with tons of these packets of info on the property for sale. So again, my point of being misleading, why are they referring to them as protective covenants? They also say there is a Home Owner's Association with fees. If it is only county laws they are enforcing why not let the public know they are county laws and call them as it is?
County law does not restrict the minimum size of home you can build, the color of your home, whether or not you can target practice, burn trash ect. You pay property taxes, but County law does not make a person pay Home owner's association dues? So I am a bit puzzled how this is not covenants and restrictions.
If you are from out of state buying or reserving one of these tracts, I highly recommend researching all the rules. You may be a down to earth easy going guy, but all it takes is a couple people who are in the Association that get the final say and enforce these covenants like they are the neighborhood police or something and it can all go down hill from there. Why not enforce the county laws that are already set in place?
I understand your point of eye sores. I don't live that way, and most people who work hard for their property don't treat it that way.
But like I have said me personally. I am just like Elkhunter, I buy land it is mine, unless someone makes the payments for me or helps, I will not let them tell me what to do on my land...
Last edited by Kristynwy; 06-02-2008 at 11:15 PM..
Reason: added a bit...
Well, I can vouch with Kristy that I personally know NOBODY after living in Wyo for almost 40 years who want to see out of staters move in & make changes to suit the way of life they moved from. So paintersspouse, your comment You may think your mentality is the same as "the state mentality" but I would say it is no longer the predominant one.is made w/o much knowledge of the Wyo ppl as a whole. How long have you lived here? Or DO you live here? Do you get out much & talk w/NATIVES or even ppl who have lived here long enough to almost be considered natives? Even the majority of the "moved ins" I know are not looking to change things & is why they came. Is not a big prob for the most part up here. Other than the great Copperleaf. Him that has the most $$ wins the fight of rights. I have seen that happen in this case. In a past case where an Italian citizen who owns a HUGE ranch with 100 yr forest service access, closed the access to the public. Thought he was going to have his big happy private hunting area (of about 2-1/2 mountains) for his international friends. The outdoors men & women who use forest land for ANY reason (not just hunting - but hiking & even just picnics) fought for 4-5 years, with the county on our side, and because about 150 yards of the access road went across his property & he would not even compromise in any way, the county simply went up there & put a road just outside of his property hooking up with it a couple hundred yards ahead. So he got what he wanted - nobody using his road, but about 10 yards away another road cut thru right along side it. Yes, we stand up for what is right & wil do all we can to protect our rights, all of them - not just gun rights. And having rules about not becoming a junkyard, I believe MOST counties, if not all, have laws against that - they are nuisance laws - and are in place just for eyesores. You make a complaint to the commissioners & they force the owner to clean their place up or start accummulating fines. That is generally not a prob in most areas of Wyo because we take pride in our state, homes & in my experience a cordial, even FRIENDLY, conversation with the landowner can result in a clean-up. Perhaps even offer to help haul some stuff away. That's how we do things here. We don't go straight to the cops & lawyers.
Well, I can vouch with Kristy that I personally know NOBODY after living in Wyo for almost 40 years who want to see out of staters move in & make changes to suit the way of life they moved from. So paintersspouse, your comment You may think your mentality is the same as "the state mentality" but I would say it is no longer the predominant one.is made w/o much knowledge of the Wyo ppl as a whole. How long have you lived here? Or DO you live here? Do you get out much & talk w/NATIVES or even ppl who have lived here long enough to almost be considered natives? Even the majority of the "moved ins" I know are not looking to change things & is why they came. Is not a big prob for the most part up here. Other than the great Copperleaf. Him that has the most $$ wins the fight of rights. I have seen that happen in this case. In a past case where an Italian citizen who owns a HUGE ranch with 100 yr forest service access, closed the access to the public. Thought he was going to have his big happy private hunting area (of about 2-1/2 mountains) for his international friends. The outdoors men & women who use forest land for ANY reason (not just hunting - but hiking & even just picnics) fought for 4-5 years, with the county on our side, and because about 150 yards of the access road went across his property & he would not even compromise in any way, the county simply went up there & put a road just outside of his property hooking up with it a couple hundred yards ahead. So he got what he wanted - nobody using his road, but about 10 yards away another road cut thru right along side it. Yes, we stand up for what is right & wil do all we can to protect our rights, all of them - not just gun rights. And having rules about not becoming a junkyard, I believe MOST counties, if not all, have laws against that - they are nuisance laws - and are in place just for eyesores. You make a complaint to the commissioners & they force the owner to clean their place up or start accummulating fines. That is generally not a prob in most areas of Wyo because we take pride in our state, homes & in my experience a cordial, even FRIENDLY, conversation with the landowner can result in a clean-up. Perhaps even offer to help haul some stuff away. That's how we do things here. We don't go straight to the cops & lawyers.
Your post is right on! You explain it a lot better than I do!
You are driving exactly what point I am trying to drive home. We don't need home owners associations, lawyer, cops ect to make Wyoming properties and neighborhoods a wonderful place. We have enough people that still live here that have plain old common sense... and neighborliness...
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