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Long time member and fan of Wyoming, I remember a lot of familiar names I'm glad to still see here. I wish Elkhunter was still around to get some info from, he was a great fellow
So we're finally making the leap. Lived in Iowa for most of the time, but lived on the road in an Airstream for ~4 years. Got our finances in order and a 20% downpayment let's GO.
What we haven't done - is buy a house ever. We're pre-approved with a VA loan, I've already caught heat from most RE agents I've approached with that. Doesn't matter. I've been a bit leery of the real estate world in Wyoming though. Non-disclosure doesn't help gauge the local market well, and I've read from a few in the forum that even the buyer's agents won't disclose anything negative in fears of hurting the seller. Fantastic.
So I already was able to dig up a few tax records online, check the current owner's name, loan amount, and locally assessed value, which I am sure varies wildly from the current FMV.
Are there any other resources y'all can link so I can do my own due diligence in finding information on a property online? I'm looking within city limits here so I don't have to rely on satellite internet (we're gamers, and the partner is bringing his job with him).
Any tips for working directly with the listing agent if I can't rely on buyer's agents in town?
Tips for making offers, I think I can grab a form online, but don't know how hard it will be to negotiate with the listing agent, or what to expect.
On the town itself, it seems like there's been efforts to revitalize the 'main street,' town's got a gym or two, which is great, I saw a little disc golf course as well. How's cycling through town? Any bike paths established? Favorite watering holes, favorite parks or natural areas? I'm pretty excited all in all
For reference on where I have lived, anywhere from Iowa City area, short spurts in South Carolina, Maryland (hated it) a month in Texas (bleh) and ~3 years in Colorado, mostly in unincorporated parts of town (45 minutes from the nearest services) to Fort Morgan (awful smelling). We're pretty set for self sufficiency, and prepared for long, horrid, wind-blown winters. Good gear goes a long way, I've taken walks in -60 degree windchill, can't recall the exact temp without the wind, just know we're used to it. Bad weather makes strong memories
These map references might generally match up. I didn't look close enough to tell for sure how much.
"Self-sufficiency" in town? Greenhousing? Search sunspirit's posts on the subject if you or others need info. Chickens? Livestock in city subject to a permit process http://www.rawlinswy.org/documentcenter/view/9988
Growing certain things? State have different laws and can take very different enforcement attitudes. As might neighbors.
These map references might generally match up. I didn't look close enough to tell for sure how much.
"Self-sufficiency" in town? Greenhousing? Search sunspirit's posts on the subject if you or others need info. Chickens? Livestock in city subject to a permit process http://www.rawlinswy.org/documentcenter/view/9988
Growing certain things? State have different laws and can take very different enforcement attitudes. As might neighbors.
Thank you! And I'll check on their posts too
Tomatoes, basil, and other veg I hope aren't enforceable plants Rosemary sounds lovely as well. But I've got a bird of paradise, monstera deliciosa, several pothos, succulents, amongst other decorative plants right now.
I'll save "certain things" for when federal laws change, I'm aware the devil's lettuce isn't taken kindly to in this state. Better/safer to save that for vacations til then.
There's also been a water problem in the city, which I'm hoping gets resolved by the time we move so my plants don't starve.
Long time member and fan of Wyoming, I remember a lot of familiar names I'm glad to still see here. I wish Elkhunter was still around to get some info from, he was a great fellow
So we're finally making the leap. Lived in Iowa for most of the time, but lived on the road in an Airstream for ~4 years. Got our finances in order and a 20% downpayment let's GO.
What we haven't done - is buy a house ever. We're pre-approved with a VA loan, I've already caught heat from most RE agents I've approached with that. Doesn't matter. I've been a bit leery of the real estate world in Wyoming though. Non-disclosure doesn't help gauge the local market well, and I've read from a few in the forum that even the buyer's agents won't disclose anything negative in fears of hurting the seller. Fantastic.
So I already was able to dig up a few tax records online, check the current owner's name, loan amount, and locally assessed value, which I am sure varies wildly from the current FMV.
Are there any other resources y'all can link so I can do my own due diligence in finding information on a property online? I'm looking within city limits here so I don't have to rely on satellite internet (we're gamers, and the partner is bringing his job with him).
Any tips for working directly with the listing agent if I can't rely on buyer's agents in town?
Tips for making offers, I think I can grab a form online, but don't know how hard it will be to negotiate with the listing agent, or what to expect.
On the town itself, it seems like there's been efforts to revitalize the 'main street,' town's got a gym or two, which is great, I saw a little disc golf course as well. How's cycling through town? Any bike paths established? Favorite watering holes, favorite parks or natural areas? I'm pretty excited all in all
For reference on where I have lived, anywhere from Iowa City area, short spurts in South Carolina, Maryland (hated it) a month in Texas (bleh) and ~3 years in Colorado, mostly in unincorporated parts of town (45 minutes from the nearest services) to Fort Morgan (awful smelling). We're pretty set for self sufficiency, and prepared for long, horrid, wind-blown winters. Good gear goes a long way, I've taken walks in -60 degree windchill, can't recall the exact temp without the wind, just know we're used to it. Bad weather makes strong memories
I would be interested in knowing if you find exactly what you are looking for. Good luck dealing with the real estate agents.
Update, I haven't signed any contracts yet for agents, but I am also looking at properties in Green River too (not as many in Rock Springs, but it's an option) and the fella I'm in contact with is looking into a property for me that was previously pending, and left that status recently. It was listed much lower previously than it is now (at least 20k lower). I'm curious, but know only so much can be said or found. It doesn't seem from my own research that the owner's have a mortgage. The price is a bit higher than comparable neighborhood props are estimated at, and it's a smaller sqft living space without basement for props est. at higher values via web...the home was built in the 90's, so as far as utilities go, it's more likely to have less issues than a home built in the 50's - 70's like the one's we're looking at in Rawlins.
I'm super anxious. Emotionally, I like this Realtor(c). He's working alone, and a geologist before getting into realty (I have a soft spot for rocks). He's the kindest, most down to earth person I have spoken with these last 6 months while searching, and also the most diligent. No one else has messaged me with properties, this fella messaged me with properties not listed yet, AND within my range and below!
We're pre-approved at an amount I gave on the low end for this search, credit above 800 with assets to allow us to offer more than that, but certainly not a full-cash offer.
From the perspective of a SFH investor in this region ...
your observation that the newer ... but 30-yr old house ... may have "fewer" issues than a older house may be unfounded.
That 30-yr old house is of an age when many aspects are approaching or have reached their functional lifespan and now are close to or needing updating/repair.
OTOH, that "older" house may have already encountered those same issues and had them addressed/repaired/replaced already, with a newer lifespan ahead.
The bottom line is what really counts is the present condition of the house and property. Investigate and verify what it is under consideration for purchase and do your own due diligence make an informed buy decision.
Again, no matter how well your chosen real estate professional contact presents themself as your advocate, understand that their primary fiduciary responsibility here in Wyoming is to the seller. NOT YOU, the buyer. Bear in mind that after a closing, you are the owner of the property ... and the broker/agents have left with their earned commissions in hand. There's very little that's actionable after the fact ... so do your due diligence about every aspect of a purchase that you can do. Take the time to investigate and know what you're buying ... even if that means hiring outside expertise (trades ... roofers, plumbing, electricians, site & building engineers, surveyors, etc), checking with the local Z&P commission, water rights/supply/water quality, appraisers, and perhaps, legal assistance.
Know in advance that many title company offices throughout Wyoming don't know or follow the statutes for property taxes, and don't correctly allocate the tax reserves for a property. I've encountered this numerous times in Wyoming, and even when I showed the closer the statutes ... they still pro-rated the taxes for buyer/seller improperly and insisted upon doing business incorrectly. I've had several times where I could not get them to do their work properly, and closed ...knowing that I would have to straighten out the mess with the other party after the fact. A couple of times we agreed in advance to settle up the tax discrepcancy after the closing for the sake of expediency in getting a closing done in a timely manner. I have complained to the WY Real Estate commission about this situation several times and all they've done is given me a run-around ... effectively acknowledging that neither they, nor any other state regulatory agency had any control over the performance of the title companies operating here in Wyoming. Allow me to clarify the problem ...
Most states collect annual property taxes in arrears. IOW, the property taxes due for a given calendar year are collected the following year, so can be pro-rated at closing between the buyer and seller based upon the taxes from the prior tax year. This works fine in most states. But Wyoming has a different approach ... The Owner of Record on Jan 1st of a given calendar year is the sole party to which that calendar year property taxes are charged and due and payable by December 31st of THAT CALENDAR YEAR. (Yes, WY allows that owner to pay half of the tax liability in the same calendar year and the balance in the spring of the next calendar year without any interest or penalty, but this is only a payment accommodation). So, here's what happens when a title company closer pro-rates the tax liability for a closing, and gives the seller a credit for the pro-rata. The buyer winds up paying the seller for a tax liability that the buyer will be paying in full. What should have happened at the Wyoming closing is the seller should be charged the pro-rated portion of the tax bill and that amount credited to the buyer so they can pay the tax bill for that calendar year. While the buyer in a calendar year will pay the tax bill, it won't be until the next Jan 1st that the Owner of Record and liability will shift to the buyer.
What's aggravating about this tax liability problem is that not one RE Broker or Agent I've dealt with in Wyoming has ever caught this error, or spoken up about it in a review of closing docs before a closing. I've had to point this error out several times, and everybody looks at me like I'm stupid or something ... and I've even had the Title Company and the RE agents involved wave the Wyoming statutes document at me, or submit them to the RE Commission in their defense of their behavior. It's like, guys, did you even read the Statutes? They are very explicit about the Property Tax Calendar Year being assessed on Jan 1st for the Owner of Record and Due and Payable in THAT CALENDAR YEAR. I've literally had Closing Agents and their Office Managers yell at me about how the tax pro-rata is credited to the Seller because that's how they do it in all the other states ... but it's incorrect in Wyoming. If you don't understand this aspect of what may be a very confusing set of legal documents ... and there's a stack of them that will be at every closing, with many details to be addressed to close the transaction ... get your real estate lawyer to review the sales contract and the closing documents before you closing. It's in your best interests to have an advocate on your side of the transaction, somebody working on your sole behalf ... especially as a newbie buyer.
This is merely a portion of the typical incompetence I've repeatedly encountered in Wyoming real estate dealings. It is incumbent upon you to be as knowledgeable as you can be about what may be one of the largest purchases you'll ever make in your life.
From the perspective of a SFH investor in this region ...
...
This is merely a portion of the typical incompetence I've repeatedly encountered in Wyoming real estate dealings. It is incumbent upon you to be as knowledgeable as you can be about what may be one of the largest purchases you'll ever make in your life.
Holy moly thank you. This is becoming an even scarier transaction than I already assumed. I still haven't gone forth with any offers. I have a lot of things to consider.
try as I might to explain how that tax pro-rata problem, I have misspoken about the problem.
I looked again at the closing doc's from my last Wyoming land sale. The closer pro-rated that estimated tax bill for the year and deducted my portion of the taxes from my side of the closing sheet, crediting the buyer with the money. The problem here is that the buyer in mid-2020 will not be the one paying the 2020 taxes, but me ... the seller and owner of record as of Jan 1st 2020.
Since both the buyer and I wanted to just get the deal done and get closed ASAP, we made a deal that he'd give me a check for the tax amount so that I'd have the money when I paid the 2020 tax bill in December 2020.
Sorry for the confusion in the prior post.
Just so you know ... Wyoming's county tax assessors are charged with determining the FMV and the taxable base for every real estate parcel every year as of Jan 1st of that year. They send out the assessed valuation notice to that Jan 1st owner of record around the end of March, which gives you enough time to review the valuation and contest it if you think it's wrong.
Then, later in the same year, the County sends out the property tax bill to the Jan 1st owner of record. If you have a mortgage on the property and a lender that has been collecting a tax reserve, then you must send that tax bill notice to the lender so that they can pay the property tax in a timely manner with your funds that they've been holding in escrow. If you have no mortgage, then you are responsible to make the timely tax payment.
That property tax bill is due and payable in full by Dec 31st of the same tax year.
Plainswalker ... there's no need to be "scared" of a home buying transaction with all these little details. It's just part of a routine process which is essentially far simpler than most real estate agents would care to admit. But with the large sums of money at stake, there's a lot of "little details" which must be rigorously followed to promote a good and legal transaction for all parties at the closing table. I suggest you take the time as needed to familiarize yourself with the details and the process so that you can complete a reasonably smooth transaction when the time comes.
IMO, it's not good to rush into any such transaction until you have a complete understanding of what it is you're purchasing. Unless you've got a completely discretionary "out" clause, for any reason you determine to cancel a deal and get all your earnest/deposit money back ... don't be signing any contracts nor writing any checks. I've seen several times where the "earnest" money funds where not refundable because the seller's agency/contract specified that if the deal didn't go to completion, the seller was to retain all those funds as "liquidated damages" for having taken the property off the market with the buyer's contract in hand. Unfortunately, the buyer discovered some issues with the purchase which caused them to want to cancel the deal. In one unusual deal ... a buyer made an earnest money check out for a 25% of the purchase offer and forfeited it when they backed out of the deal for personal reasons; they made the offer with the large earnest money deposit because there was a couple of competing bidders and the buyer's agent suggested that a bigger earnest money deposit might sway the seller to accept that offer over the others. Apparently, the tactic worked ... but to the loss for that buyer when the deal was cancelled.
As for the buyer's agent, don't sweat that. I have never really seen any benefit to having one signed. They can only find so much and are only obligated to say so much. And you always have to considered everyone's self-interest....We worked with an agent last year and I asked about the buyer's agency agreement, and her opinion was that you did not get much benefit. So we just worked together with no signed agreement, and I looked as well as I could into matters where she had no knowledge or info. (This is our 9th or 10th property transaction.)
She was a retired school-teacher and very detailed and very attentive to getting answers to questions. (And very different than the 'fluffier' agent we met with the year before....) She will never be top-saleswoman because she is still a school teacher at heart. So if you like the ex-geologist, then I'd suggest you continue with him and not sweat over any agreements.
As said, don't be scared. Millions of folks every years do such transactions and survive just fine LOL. Sunsprit is just making you aware of a few things. IMHO, the forfeiture of the earnest money if the deal falls through is the big thing to watch in his info; the seller can set that as he/she pleases. On our deal last year (for land only), we wrote up our offer in a way to basically be able to walk away for an reason and get our earnest money back. (I have been in that situation as a seller too.) The property tax matter is a routine one; just be clear on who pays what when. The tax situation is as stated for our property in 2021 when we bought, but we agreed up front to pay the taxes for 2021 beyond our purchase date (which is the norm) it was all set up properly in the closing statement.
As for the price going up on your property of interest after the last sale, I suspect they may just be following the market values or 'testing the waters'; they may have had multiple offers before. You're looking at a time when prices are still going up. If you can wait, it might pay off, as the market may cool as the Fed raises interest rates to combat inflation. On the other hand if the prices are straining your payment abilities, then your ability to pay will decrease as interest rates go up. (But your situation sounds financially sound.)
If you want the name and contact info of a home inspector in that area, PM let and I will give you that. Home inspectors can only do so much; they do not have any better x-ray vision than you or I, and only so much experience. But you may want to have one look to see if there are any gross, visible problems. (And it may be required now for a VA loan.) Again, they cannot inspect what they cannot see. And they will often pick on small things if they find nothing major, just to show you that you got your money's worth in hiring them. So don't get wrapped around the axle on minor stuff they find; of course, it may be hard to tell if you are not an experienced builder.
Good luck!
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Rosemary sounds lovely as well. But I've got a bird of paradise, monstera deliciosa, several pothos, succulents, amongst other decorative plants right now. 
Good luck dealing with the real estate agents.
