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Hello! Been looking to move near the Rockies/Tetons/WWR for almost 10 years now and pieces have been falling into place recently to make it happen. I’m male, 30, love hiking, currently live in a northeast city, conservative, will be renting. Based on my research so far, including going through posts on this site, I have landed on Cheyenne. If anyone can provide any feedback on the below or advise on any other towns I should look into that would be great. Thank you.
My criteria that seems to be confirmed with Cheyenne:
- “close” to the mountains – approx. 3 hours drive to half of the Rockies (up to a full-day’s drive for the rest depending on where) and approx. 5-6 hours drive to the Tetons & WWR. (also see ‘weather’ below)
- large population, by Wyoming standards, around 65,000
- conservative
- rent around $1,000/mth (excluding utilities) per numerous postings on rental apps– I’m aware this is the low end, but still seems feasible
- “amenities” –
-Gyms - im a gym rat. Gold’s Gym would likely be my go-to.
-Groceries – I see Walmarts north and south of town. Any locally owned shops for good quality meat / fresh produce?
-Hospital & doctors offices
-Dining out / bars – I see a few scattered across town. But I usually don’t go out often to do this, nor do I drink. Aside from gym and outdoor activities im usually home most of time…I guess I could try to get out more if there is a decent population of single women around my age.
-Within 2 hours from Denver via I-25 if I need a major city for something. (also see ‘weather’ & ‘international travel’ below). I’ve read in a few posts this usually ends up realistically being at least 3 hours? Even more if coming from Denver International Airport?
- Safe – only thing I came across was that the south Cheyenne is “rough”. Seems like I wouldn’t need to worry much if I’m out at night alone.
Questions:
- weather – I’m no stranger to winter storms in the northeast. It seems I need to adjust for longer winters that are windier, drier, more snow depending on wind drifts, and black ice on major roads. During winter, what do most folks do in their spare time? Would I assume correctly that is not feasible, and very dangerous, to try to drive from Cheyenne to the Rockies or to the Tetons in the winter to hike, snow-shoe, ski - and even in shoulder months when snow could still occur unexpectedly? How many months out of the year would that be? I’ve read the roads south out of Cheyenne, like I-25, are very dangerous in the winter.
- internet service (My work depends on it) – is it reliable / Are there specific areas of town where it is significantly better or worse than other parts? I’m currently getting over 300 Mbps download speed and over 130 Mbps upload speed with Verizon where I am now. I see Spectrum claiming 1000 Mbps for Cheyenne which seems too good to be true. Can anyone vouch for it? (No Verizon?)
I’ve also read it’s not unusual for service to be down for hours or a day at a time due to weather. Are you able to quantify about how often this happens?
- Noise – aside from the major roads intersecting town & the railway - any specific areas that would be very noisy during the day or night? (high traffic noise, or loud partying, etc)
- international travel –If I need to get to Denver International Airport in winter months, is using the Cheyenne Regional Airport feasible in winter? I read that flights can be canceled for a number of reasons including severe weather (which makes sense). Does this happen often? I also read about the shuttle services to/from Denver – but would face the possibility of highway closures due to weather as well. Does this happen often too?
- friendly to ‘outsiders’? – I’m not looking to change anything, am conservative, not looking to add to any ‘californication’ that may already be taking place. Friends to hike with, etc would be nice. Anything I absolutely must do or not do to not stick out like a sore thumb?
- Lastly, my move would take place last week in September – should I be worried about hitting a lot of snow or very challenging winds with a small cargo trailer? Approx. 5’x8’ side profile. Main worry is the stretch of I-80 through Nebraska and into WY. Thanks again.
Hello! Been looking to move near the Rockies/Tetons/WWR for almost 10 years now and pieces have been falling into place recently to make it happen. I’m male, 30, love hiking, currently live in a northeast city, conservative, will be renting. Based on my research so far, including going through posts on this site, I have landed on Cheyenne. If anyone can provide any feedback on the below or advise on any other towns I should look into that would be great. Thank you.
My criteria that seems to be confirmed with Cheyenne:
- “close” to the mountains – approx. 3 hours drive to half of the Rockies (up to a full-day’s drive for the rest depending on where) and approx. 5-6 hours drive to the Tetons & WWR. (also see ‘weather’ below)
- large population, by Wyoming standards, around 65,000
- conservative
- rent around $1,000/mth (excluding utilities) per numerous postings on rental apps– I’m aware this is the low end, but still seems feasible
- “amenities” –
-Gyms - im a gym rat. Gold’s Gym would likely be my go-to.
-Groceries – I see Walmarts north and south of town. Any locally owned shops for good quality meat / fresh produce?
-Hospital & doctors offices
-Dining out / bars – I see a few scattered across town. But I usually don’t go out often to do this, nor do I drink. Aside from gym and outdoor activities im usually home most of time…I guess I could try to get out more if there is a decent population of single women around my age.
-Within 2 hours from Denver via I-25 if I need a major city for something. (also see ‘weather’ & ‘international travel’ below). I’ve read in a few posts this usually ends up realistically being at least 3 hours? Even more if coming from Denver International Airport?
- Safe – only thing I came across was that the south Cheyenne is “rough”. Seems like I wouldn’t need to worry much if I’m out at night alone.
Questions:
- weather – I’m no stranger to winter storms in the northeast. It seems I need to adjust for longer winters that are windier, drier, more snow depending on wind drifts, and black ice on major roads. During winter, what do most folks do in their spare time? Would I assume correctly that is not feasible, and very dangerous, to try to drive from Cheyenne to the Rockies or to the Tetons in the winter to hike, snow-shoe, ski - and even in shoulder months when snow could still occur unexpectedly? How many months out of the year would that be? I’ve read the roads south out of Cheyenne, like I-25, are very dangerous in the winter.
- internet service (My work depends on it) – is it reliable / Are there specific areas of town where it is significantly better or worse than other parts? I’m currently getting over 300 Mbps download speed and over 130 Mbps upload speed with Verizon where I am now. I see Spectrum claiming 1000 Mbps for Cheyenne which seems too good to be true. Can anyone vouch for it? (No Verizon?)
I’ve also read it’s not unusual for service to be down for hours or a day at a time due to weather. Are you able to quantify about how often this happens?
- Noise – aside from the major roads intersecting town & the railway - any specific areas that would be very noisy during the day or night? (high traffic noise, or loud partying, etc)
- international travel –If I need to get to Denver International Airport in winter months, is using the Cheyenne Regional Airport feasible in winter? I read that flights can be canceled for a number of reasons including severe weather (which makes sense). Does this happen often? I also read about the shuttle services to/from Denver – but would face the possibility of highway closures due to weather as well. Does this happen often too?
- friendly to ‘outsiders’? – I’m not looking to change anything, am conservative, not looking to add to any ‘californication’ that may already be taking place. Friends to hike with, etc would be nice. Anything I absolutely must do or not do to not stick out like a sore thumb?
- Lastly, my move would take place last week in September – should I be worried about hitting a lot of snow or very challenging winds with a small cargo trailer? Approx. 5’x8’ side profile. Main worry is the stretch of I-80 through Nebraska and into WY. Thanks again.
Too bad no 24 hrs. Fitness Clubs as they are open 24hrs. day and have all the amenities. A Wal-Mart would work for shopping for all kinds of products but a Costco or a Sam's Club or both of these would be ideal.
We are much older than yourself (73/74) and are looking to possibly move to Cheyenne for very, very different reasons that you have listed. And, we have been in Cheyenne before.
Now, have you ever visited Cheyenne? There are those on this forum that will say "be sure to visit first". Reading some replies on this forum can be very different than actually visiting.
Not that it matters, but have you ever seen the Wyoming State Flag? To a point, like Montana, Wyoming is a "cowboy/rodeo" state and that shows on the state flag.
Thanks for the tip BabyBoomers2. I have not yet visited Cheyenne specifically. I have cycled through Wyoming in 2017 on a solo cross country cycling trip and passed through - and stayed in - towns such as Riverside, Saratoga, Rawlins, Jeffrey City, Lander, Crowheart, Dubois, Jackson. So I am somewhat familiar with the western heritage, remoteness, and population densities of the state to where I don't think I would find Cheyenne 'unsuitable' for me. I was also in Pinedale and the WRR recently. I believe my main concerns currently would still be the topics I listed under 'questions' in the post. Thanks again.
If you want to be close to Denver with city size, then Cheyenne is your WY choice. Casper an option if Denver isn't as important. 2 hours closer to big city (and CO hiking) or 2 hours closer to northern WY / MT hiking.
Winter driving for recreation is possible some days / weeks. Depends how important it is you and how well suited the vehicle, tires and driver.
Late September "should" be fine on temp. Snow can happen then but not common. Wind, could be issue in any month but September is relatively low though transitioning back to higher in winter. Drive slower and pick the forecast best part or day or night if indications go above moderate.
Thanks for the tip BabyBoomers2. I have not yet visited Cheyenne specifically. I have cycled through Wyoming in 2017 on a solo cross country cycling trip and passed through - and stayed in - towns such as Riverside, Saratoga, Rawlins, Jeffrey City, Lander, Crowheart, Dubois, Jackson. So I am somewhat familiar with the western heritage, remoteness, and population densities of the state to where I don't think I would find Cheyenne 'unsuitable' for me. I was also in Pinedale and the WRR recently. I believe my main concerns currently would still be the topics I listed under 'questions' in the post. Thanks again.
And, thanks for your reply to me. I'm sure there will be others that will chime in on your questions, but I was told, in a thread I done, that very few folks that live in Cheyenne, are a part of this forum.
But, just like us, will have to take whatever info we can get from others.
Just a little FYI of us, and then you'll see the reasons different between you and us: We have a major interest in rodeo and ranching. Years ago I was involved in professional rodeo on a "weekends only" status. I had a nice paying full-time job during those years. No, I was not a bull rider (LOL). I was a roper (team/"header"). To this day, we are very serious rodeo fans. As for ranching, we have never done it, but are highly interested in both farming and ranching. We have a complete miniature farm/ranch setup on a 5 foot counter. Livestock, corrals, cowboys and other things.
When we were in Cheyenne, there were those that probably thought we already lived there, in part, due to our western attire. However, and this is a big-to-huge "however", we have learned that not everyone in Wyoming is into western stuff, even though most folks think of Wyoming in that respect.
Anyway, good luck with your inquiries.
Last edited by BabyBoomers2; 06-26-2022 at 01:50 PM..
Cheyenne's economy is mainly based on industry (railroad/refinery/explosives plant/oilfield services/some manufacturing) and government (Air Force Base/state government/state capital). Named for the American Indian tribe, the town was founded and laid out by the Union Pacific railroad. It was referred to as the "magic city", because it seemed to just spring up at once, (like magic). UP still domiciles and maintains their vintage power (steamers and diesel electric) in Cheyenne. Legend is that the train station and state capital were built at opposite ends of Capital Ave so the railroad and gubmint could keep an eye on each other.
It's not a trendy downtown with lofts, etc. The "Avenues" area north of downtown is the trendy place to live downtown, but is older single family homes. I suppose some of "south" Cheyenne could be seen as rough, but not by urban standards. West of Greeley Hwy along Fox Farm are new apartment complexes. East of Greeley Hwy toward LCCC is more trailer houses. There are cottages and bungalows east of Central Ave (which becomes Greeley Hwy) over to the refinery, working class area, but I wouldn't call it rough. That's where a house might rent for a thousand. Apartment/townhouse places are also east at College Drive and Del Range area, or north along Storey Blvd to Yellowstone Rd, or just south of Carlson near Yellowstone Rd. I think the rents are probably higher than they used to be-Cheyenne is growing a lot. There isn't anyplace in Cheyenne where I would be concerned about walking around alone at night. Places along I80 would be the most noisy.
My own viewpoint-garage or at least carport dealie essential. Cheyenne can get large damaging hail from time to time.
Anymore in winter, it seems like I80 is closed about a third of the time. It's also bone dry in the middle of winter, too. Just have to check (wyoroad.info), a ton of road cameras so you can see what it looks like. I25 south can be hairy if a storm comes in, otherwise not usually a concern. Weather on that stretch is made worse by heavy traffic. But there are alternatives-Hwy 85 parallels I25, and to get to DIA, I will sometimes go off from 85 to Weld County Pkwy, take it to I76, to Bromley Ln, then Picadilly Rd to Tower Rd, and right into DIA. Don't have to worry about accidents and congestion that way. I25 is a crap shoot. I'm in Permian Basin TX right now, and my trip down I25 was totally smooth. Last week coming north, it started loading up at Trinidad and was stop and go at Pueblo-all the way thru Denver. (That was a holiday wknd) I go back and forth from WY twice a month or more, and I guess you just get used to it. Flight situation in Cheyenne is kind of sketchy-not sure there are flights, or maybe they started up again.
Steamboat Springs isn't far for skiing. Outdoor rec areas closer to Cheyenne are Vedauwoo and Snowy Range. But fires have impacted the Snowies. To live closer to the areas you like in western Wyoming would mean Rock Springs or Riverton, otherwise much smaller towns.
I don't go to bars, their atmosphere seems really contrived to me. I think you might meet people thru church, or interest groups, like if you are into powersports, outdoor rec, music, etc.
I have Century Link at home. It goes out once or twice a year, but not for long. (Not a whole day) I think CLink is crappy, but haven't done anything about it-I'm hardly ever home. I use a mobile hotspot on my phone (Verizon) if CLink is out or I am in the middle of nowhere on the road.
Lot of chain restaurants in Cheyenne. (Doesn't bother me personally-I'm not a foodie at all-I eat out constantly on the road, so meh). What you can't find in Cheyenne is probably available in northern Colorado (Scheel's!!) Yeah, September is usually not bad. We got 8 in. of snow on Labor Day a few years back, but it melted right away, leaving 1500 bucks arborist bill. Usually wouldn't be concern coming across Neb that time of year.
Driving out to the mountains in winter is not a season long issue at all. Like the NE, you have storms and then stretched of un- stormy weather. We have towed a trailer with snowmobiles in winter in most parts of Wyoming, including over Togwotee Pass to the Jackson area and up on the roads over the Bighorns. So it is not a problem you don't deal with already if you in a part of the NE that gets snow. The main roads get plowed quickly as they are often medical emergency routes in winter.
You just have to be aware of the situation when you get off the highways and head into the mountains in winter. Like anywhere...
My responses will follow your items, in blue text.
By way of background/qualifications ... I'm one of the very few C-D posters that actually lives in the Cheyenne area, on a working farm/ranch since 1999. Came out to the Rocky Mountains for school (CU Boulder) in 1964 and have been kicking around the region for work & recreation ever since. I'm a GA pilot/aircraft owner with over 40 years experience extensively flying the region (hence, my concerns re weather and patterns are at a bit different level than folk who aren't pilots ... this is a tough area of the USA to fly light aircraft). Have owned resort area SFH rental houses in the Rocky Mountains for decades, and commercial properties ranging from equine boarding/arena facilities to retail stores throughout the region. Spent 25 years as a manufacturer's rep of industrial epoxies, so I was calling (traveling 30,000 miles/year) on industrial/mining/retail commercial/food processing/red & white meat plants/breweries/Class A office buildings/powerplants/dams ... after a career as an independent high-end automotive repair shop with the majority of my clientele in the Rocky Mountain towns (ie, a did a lot of road calls and service work for clients in the mountain areas poorly served by local shops or dealerships, so I traveled the region frequently during adverse weather times. Had a 2nd home in Vail to base out of and stayed there typically about 25 weekends per year + numerous nights when convenient for my business travels/work). Was an active sailboat racer (Lasers, and some keelboats up through 32') for decades, downhill skier, road bicyclist, horse trail rider/camper, and backcountry camper (from hike-in wilderness to motorcycle to equine to fly-in backcountry camping) for decades, have recently gotten into lake fishing the area .
As an active long term real estate investor of residential and commercial properties I have witnessed the ups & downs (boom/bust cycles) of the region. I've watched many folk from out of this area with their paradigm of what should be here set themselves up for failure because of what is actually here ... and the basis for many folk moving here is so flawed. Wyoming is not Yellowstone National Park and massive forested areas, nor is it the pleasant winter area conditions of the Jackson area where it's got winter recreation opportunities and folk actively seek to enjoy all those outdoor sports on many winter days. It's mostly a high altitude desert/plains area, pretty scruffy terrain ... most of which is best suited for livestock grazing and wildlife survival. Bear in mind that 50% of the state is public lands not available for development, which is one of the reasons why distances between communities are as long as they are.
As has been observed by others on this forum, few folk move to Cheyenne because they want to be here. Most folk move here because of a job or a posting that brings them to Cheyenne. IOW, many have moved here because they "had to move here". In time, the trade-offs of what's here vs what they want to find here is a disappointment, and the "gone in 2" syndrome (ie, 2 winters and they're out of here) is a very common experience.
At the present time, due to a huge expansion at WAFB (the $multi-billion Raytheon missile silo rehabs project now starting up), the housing and business marketplace in Cheyenne is undergoing a huge change. I'm seeing tracts of dryland prairie wheat farmland being subdivided up into small acreages with expensive "prairie palaces" being built for the influx of the higher earnings folk coming in for the first jobs of the project. The influx is adversely affecting the housing/property/rental market, with folk having the income to pay incredibly high prices for properties which many have never set foot on, nor know the sites or just what they're getting in to. I'm seeing spectacular houses being built in the foothills that have limited wintertime access that will look gorgeous and idyllic in the fair weather months, but will be very problematic for utilities and access during the winter months. Neighbors of mine are appalled at these developments and are of the opinion that once these houses are built and occupied (starting recently), there will be a housing crash in a few years as the people discover what they've really bought here and move back to their comfort zones away from here.
One of the primary factors of living here is the altitude. Can't tell you how many people don't recognize how significant this is to the climate and living here. (The temperature lapse rate is 3F per 1,000' elevation gain; ie, a 40F day at sea level is a 22F day here, all other factors being equal ... add in a wind chill factor that can drop the perceived temperature on skin down another 5-10-15F, and what is a nominal pleasant winter day at sea level for your activities can be a brutal experience here). Did I mention Winds? Ah ... again, look up for yourself the wind energy density charts for the USA. Cheyenne sits in a corridor with some of the strongest winds of the country, and they will be a big factor in what you can do and enjoy on a daily basis for months on end. They are not trivial, and can radically affect everything you do from outdoor recreation to travel in the area. By way of reference, some of the highest mechanical equipment failure rates of the "wind farms" here are due to the extreme variations of wind velocity and gust direction changes that are unlike other areas of the country; ie, blades get blown off of wind generators here, or the generators/gear reduction drives get blown apart due to the instantaneous changes that the gear is not designed to accommodate ... the industry doesn't have to deal with these conditions in too many other locations so they aren't going to redesign and build equipment just for this limited market. From what I've seen, it's not terribly uncommon to see a substantial number of wind turbines out of service in a given field ... and again, I will point out that I get to see a lot of the remote sites from the air that folk who are only seeing them from a highway never get to see.
Just for grins, you might want to do your own research as to the coldest areas in the USA to live in ... of the top 10, IIRC only Sault Ste Marie makes the list. The balance are in the Rocky Mountains. Why? Altitude and weather patterns bringing in cold arctic air masses make this far colder and a much longer winter season each year than folk from out of the area generally relate to or understand. Your experience with "winter" in a low-altitude riparian climate with a couple months of winter conditions doesn't being to approach the realties of a 6-month long winter from the first hard frosts of September through the wet "spring" heavy snowstorms of May along with the sub-zero overnights ... and the prospects of several wintertime days on end never getting above 0F with overnight temps in the double-digits below 0. Again, you can check this out by a number of searches ... look for growing climate days, or heating degree days, or comparing annual growing events ... Cherry Blossom festivals/viewing around the USA are in full tilt while here in Cheyenne, we're looking at the snowiest months ahead of our winters. Got it?Here's the difference ... most folk around the USA are celebrating the latest signs of spring renewal while we're looking at more months of wintertime "cabin fever" season and restricted local outdoor activities. This extends to the point that the tourist season hospitality businesses in much of the state are still shut down for the winter season, and numerous federal/state/county public lands are not accessible for your outdoor recreation, still closed for the season; some allow "entry and travel at your own risk", but if you get stuck you're on your own. The local ranger stations may have some up to the minute advice but generally speaking the recommendation is to not even try to get into a lot of places. For reference, a lot of the backcountry areas don't even begin to thaw out until June/July ... some lakes I've flown over that hold the promise of fabulous fishing don't thaw until August. Suffice to say that their fishing season is pretty short. Again, you can look at the climate reports for YNP to get an idea of some of the limitations ... when it thaws out and when it becomes likely to see freezing temps and snowstorms in the Fall.
FWIW, I've had over 40 years of winters where skiing in Vail or Aspen was a pleasure while the wintertime climate conditions presenting in SE Wyoming were a challenge to just make it from my house front door to a barn to check on livestock and get them fed/watered. One cannot appreciate the difference in how brutal the conditions are until you've experienced them ... and not just on a landmark day, but repeatedly day-in day-out for years of winters on end. This is one of the big bugaboos about living in SE Wyoming and I can only again advise you to come visit for an extended stay (or two or three times) with an eye towards residency in those winter months before making a decision about if this is where you want to spend your time ... full-time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeribs2
Hello! Been looking to move near the Rockies/Tetons/WWR for almost 10 years now and pieces have been falling into place recently to make it happen. I’m male, 30, love hiking, currently live in a northeast city, conservative, will be renting. Based on my research so far, including going through posts on this site, I have landed on Cheyenne. If anyone can provide any feedback on the below or advise on any other towns I should look into that would be great. Thank you.
My criteria that seems to be confirmed with Cheyenne:
- “close” to the mountains – approx. 3 hours drive to half of the Rockies (up to a full-day’s drive for the rest depending on where) and approx. 5-6 hours drive to the Tetons & WWR. (also see ‘weather’ below). In fair weather months, Cheyenne's 30 minutes out from the Curt Gowdy park areas in the foothills to the West. You'll find marvelous hiking, equine trails, places to target practice, picnics along roaring creeks, climbing, or other areas near to I-80 or Happy Jack Road to enjoy.
Weekdays, especially, tend to not be crowded and you can oft-times find yourself quite alone in a remote setting yet not too far from your vehicle to return home. Of course, the 3 lakes present places to fish, or just relax near the water, camp out, etc. No charge for the Laramie County facilities/land there, so it's ready access to outdoors. Of course, the further away public lands and recreation opportunities present other options, but do remember that you'll need either a Wyoming daily/camping parks pass (annual permits advised if you use these a lot), or Fed passes/fees for daily access and camping.
- large population, by Wyoming standards, around 65,000. In the process of radically changing, right now. Expected influx of at least 10,000 people in the near term, with as many as 20-30,000 workers expected for the 10-20 years WAFB project. This represents a huge change in the local marketplace and activity, plus strains on the local water supply/utilities providers. We're already seeing a big shift in the daily traffic counts in Cheyenne ... I used to be able to count on almost no traffic in town when I went shopping during the weekdays. Lately, it's not unusual to need several traffic light cycles to transit Dell Range Blvd or Lincoln or College Ave's ... main thoroughfares through the City. Shopping crowds noticeably larger than just a year ago ... both the WalMart parking lots are typically full, which used to be a holiday rush shopping experience only. Not unusual now for the self-check out area of WalMart to have a waiting line to get to one of the registers where previously they were the quick way to avoid the checker lines and get out of the store promptly. Similarly, many retail outfits are seeing more traffic in the stores ... used to be that I could almost always walk up to the check out counter at Murdoch's or Sportsman's Warehouse ... now there's almost always a waiting line.
- conservative. Historically, a fair assessment of the trends here. But in recent years, there's a move in different directions ... I think due to the influx of folks from out of the area with different ideas.
For example, the school district appears to have some leadership and teachers with a far different bent than conservative. I've known several families to pull their children out of the public schools and change over to home-schooling. Their children still had social and sports team contact with the public school kids, and when they were given the choice about going back to the public schools as they moved up from Junior High to High School, the kids opted to stay with home schooling ... despite the obvious lack of expertise on the part of their parent/teacher and the lack of school type resources for their education. Those kids were sharp enough to discern the nonsense that was being taught in the schools, it was that obvious even to them that it was indoctrination rather than time spent on education. To the kids' credit, they've moved on to colleges with SAT's that were oft-times better than their public school contemporaries, and some with athletic scholarships, too.
On a personal note, I've testified on some farming and zoning issues at the state legislature in past years, and I note that there's more than a few of our state senators these days that have views more consistent with East and West coast big city politics. I attribute some of that to their profound ignorance of what rural life may be like, but some of it affected food issues which they took very liberal ... excessively controlling and regulating ... positions on. IMO, they were all about control and not necessarily improving any aspect of life or health or prosperity here except to expand the role of government intrusion upon our lives to the sole benefit of government employment and expanded agencies/personnel.
- rent around $1,000/mth (excluding utilities) per numerous postings on rental apps– I’m aware this is the low end, but still seems feasible. Currently, seems to be the market rates for a 1bd/1ba apartment in a "nice" area, but when the WAFB project starts staffing up with the tech workers instead of just the office workers/managers now coming into town ... one may reasonably expect that the limited number of rental properties will be seeing substantial increases. Such is the nature of the boom/bust cycles of Wyoming. Market demand will prevail and the landlords will take advantage of it when and while they can.
- “amenities” – Not sure what you need here, but normal everyday shopping is reasonably well met in Cheyenne. Major purchases are a different story ... you may want compare prices and availability in Ft Collins or Denver for these.
-Gyms - im a gym rat. Gold’s Gym would likely be my go-to.
-Groceries – I see Walmarts north and south of town. Any locally owned shops for good quality meat / fresh produce? Albertson's/Safeway, and King Soopers present the major alternatives in town. I shop the specials and stock up when I go shopping. There's a Oriental Grocery just off Lincolnway that stocks a variety of items, especially bulk foods or Oriental sauces/seasonings that are otherwise not available in town. You can buy Turmeric, for example, in bulk for low $'s or buy the small jars at the major retailers for way more money. There's a Vitamin Cottage that has a decent selection of alternative foods/vit's/mineral supplements ... if that's stuff that you're looking for. As well, there are Farmer's Markets through the year that have local producers with fruits/vege's, breads, and locally raised Beef and Bison.
-Hospital & doctors offices. Other than a major emergency requiring immediate medical attention, I wouldn't rely upon the medical services in Cheyenne for my health. I've related on these pages numerous times where the local medical community had their financial interests at heart over any concern for my health maintenance and good outcomes ... be it routine medical well-care through surgeries. The only medical care I use locally is an optometrist and a dentist ... and it took me years here to find a dental practice that wasn't a "more bucks" outfit that did terrible and excessive dental work. With the exception of my neighbors and acquaintances that rely upon the Vet facilities here due to financial concerns, everybody I know goes to the Front Range medical community ... doc's and hospitals and outpatient surgery centers. Even Laramie has a better ortho facility than Cheyenne, although I use one in Ft Collins, along with my cardiologist. I think Cheyenne's best medical facility is the Imaging Center, where you'll typically be referred to for x-rays and MRI's and diagnostic stuff of that type. Your needs, of course, as a youngster will likely be different than mine at my age. FWIW, Mrs Sun tried the Women's Medical Practice here for her routine annual exams and is so upset with their care that she didn't even bother to look at her last exam results from them. She's since gone on to a Front Range medical practice which appears to her to be interested in her health rather than just racking up billable procedures. YMMV.
-Dining out / bars – I see a few scattered across town. But I usually don’t go out often to do this, nor do I drink. Aside from gym and outdoor activities im usually home most of time…I guess I could try to get out more if there is a decent population of single women around my age. I'm also a non-drinker, so don't frequent bars for their social value. For the most part, the bars in town are centers of importance to a significant portion of the population that spend a lot of time consuming ... this was apparently one of the big draws of Cheyenne for years. (ie, alcohol and substance abuse are a bit of a problem in this town, has been the situation for years. But there are, to their credit, a couple of bar/grill outfits here in town that from time to time may have some of the better restaurant meals when they decide to focus/upgrade their operation. The food service aspect "comes and goes" ... one can try them out and see if their product/service meets your expectations. There's been times where I've been blown away ... and times where I've been disappointed. True story ... one of the prominent bar/grills here in the area had a really good weekend deal on prime rib and steaks, then it went all to he**. I'd brought in a crew of Labor Ready guys to help with a fencing project here at the ranch, and overheard one of the guys talking about how he'd just lost his main job at a place. Turned out he was the former grill chef at the place I'd liked and he was bragging about doing 150-200 plates a night, which was a big deal in Cheyenne at the time. The owner of the bar decided that he'd do just as well bringing in restaurant portioned prime rib cuts and steaks, and fired the grill chef. All they had now was a kid at the griddle finishing up the cooking temp of the prime rib ... literally, the prime rib cuts were pre-cooked and pre-portioned for the plate and the owner was ordering just enough beef to meet anticipated needs for a night. The rib-eye steaks were the same deal, just heated up and finished to serving temp on the plancha griddle ... the charcoal grill had been retired to the storage shed behind the bar. The owner "saved" that wage for the part-time grill chef, that's how much penny-pinching he did for the place. We had an office "holiday party" for Mrs Sun office there and had a couple of cancellations at the last minute to call them and let them know that, and the owner refused to cancel their prime rib dinners from the group bill because he'd specifically ordered the prime rib portions for our party ... even though he could easily keep those prime rib portions in the refrigerator and serve them to other guests that night or the next day. Oops ... I divert to my commentary on the restaurant scene in Cheyenne. Suffice to say if you want a good restaurant experience, you may find that Cheyenne's prevailing chain/franchise outfits are a disappointment and you'll do far better to take the drive to Ft Collins or Laramie ... which is what we do when wanting to get a meal out. OTOH, if you're happy with franchise burgers/pizza/mex food-like substances/franchise steaks ... you may be satisfied here.
-Within 2 hours from Denver via I-25 if I need a major city for something. (also see ‘weather’ & ‘international travel’ below). I’ve read in a few posts this usually ends up realistically being at least 3 hours? Even more if coming from Denver International Airport? In fair weather, DIA is about 2.5 hrs if you're not in the main commuting traffic down the Front Range. In adverse driving conditions, it can be anything from another few minutes to hours delay to almost impossible getting over the Cheyenne Ridge and points South. Paying attention to inclement weather driving conditions, road accident reports, and traffic advisories may be critical to getting around the area at some times of the year.
- Safe – only thing I came across was that the south Cheyenne is “rough”. Seems like I wouldn’t need to worry much if I’m out at night alone. . There are places I'd avoid in Cheyenne ... out at night, alone ... which seem to be frequented by a rough crowd. My impression is folk under the influence ... and I've had more than a couple of times where I or Mrs Sun was accosted during the daytime at or near the Rail Terminal Center. Fortunately, other than the potential threat and harassment, we were able to walk on without further incident. But you are correct, there are areas where I wouldn't want to be out at in Cheyenne. You may want to inquire at the CPD or Laramie Cty Sheriff's Dept about their recommendations and/or crime stats report to get a handle on where you'll do best to avoid.
Questions:
- weather – I’m no stranger to winter storms in the northeast. It seems I need to adjust for longer winters that are windier, drier, more snow depending on wind drifts, and black ice on major roads. Few winter storms in the northeast compare to what will present for months on end here in a typical winter. Wind drifts can obliterate your visibility or even where a road is at, although for the most part the road crews do a decent job in town and on the main thoroughfares out into the county School Routes. Black Ice is the tough thing to control and can form on many shady surfaces, especially at night when the sun melted snowfall refreezes into that thin slick layer. It pays to check the road/weather reports and adjust your travels in accordance with the reports. Years ago, traffic densities here let the highway and road maintenance crews do their job without the authorities recommending anything but "travel advisories"; now, they are fairly quick to close roads so the number of accidents is greatly reduced and the road crews can clear the roads more effectively. Altitude and gusty winds are a key factor in the weather component here, and having a properly equipped appropriate vehicle is desirable for winter travel. But many times the best approach is to stay put and await the worst of the storm conditions.
In all candor, I've no experience with your area of the USA. But here's my reference point ... as a long time wooden-boat sailor, winter maintenance and repairs are a prime concern. I've been a subscriber to Wooden Boat for decades, and they've featured many articles about New England boat builders who do their winter time work in a makeshift shelter, typically a frame of some sort with a plastic sheet covering. Kinda' like a tunnel greenhouse. And they usually heat the workshop with a wood stove using the off-cuts from their boat projects or a cord or two of local firewood. Able to bring the workshop temperatures up to a point where it's comfortable to work in and the glues, wood finishes, and structures are at temperatures high enough to be workable and cure properly. That's a pretty warm workshop to do this in, and critical when you look at it from the perspective of building a boat that people's lives depend upon offshore. In comparison ... we use tunnel greenhouse structures here in SE Wyoming to extend our gardening season by a few weeks and allow us to control the environment and protect plants that are started a couple weeks earlier than could be done in the outdoor gardens. But there's no way that such a greenhouse structure can be heated here with a small wood stove to a comfortable temperature, let alone warm enough that I'd trust that any glue or finish coating could ever cure properly, let alone cure at all. Solvent based varnish wouldn't even dry properly in the temperatures I could get here. So when somebody tries to tell me that a New England winter compares to what presents here in SE Wyoming ... it just doesn't compute. The New England winters are so much milder for temperatures and average winds that there's simply no comparison. In the same vein, there's ski areas up there that are a huge business, right? And folk are able to enjoy all that outdoor wintertime activity ... not gonna' happen around here in SE Wyoming on an average winter day. You may be able to bundle up and stay comfortably warm, but when the winds come up and the wind chill is limiting your skin exposure to a minute or two before frostbite sets in, or the winds are so strong that you can't stand up in them ... it takes all the fun out of any outdoor wintertime activity, it comes down to how to survive it for the nicer days that may present and maybe a snowmobile ride isn't too uncomfortable.
During winter, what do most folks do in their spare time? Would I assume correctly that is not feasible, and very dangerous, to try to drive from Cheyenne to the Rockies or to the Tetons in the winter to hike, snow-shoe, ski - and even in shoulder months when snow could still occur unexpectedly? How many months out of the year would that be? I’ve read the roads south out of Cheyenne, like I-25, are very dangerous in the winter.There will be times when the roads are closed, so the decision to not travel is beyond your control. There will be times when the roads are open and it will be a "white knuckle" drive for portions of the route, so it's a travel decision you'll have to make your own judgement ... but if you've got a limited time window to head out for a recreation activity and much of the time may be spent at slow speeds and difficult driving conditions, perhaps aggravated by the semi's that appear to be able to maintain faster road speeds than you can reasonably control in your vehicle ... it comes down to you making a prudent decision about how important is your travel destination/activity at the time?
As well, there will be breaks in the weather and reasonable travel conditions where life doesn't come to a standstill. And you'll wonder why the Patrol or County authorities posted all the warnings as you easily negotiate the roads to your destination at the time, looking forward to your recreational activity. Some winters will present more of these times than others ... some will seem an endless procession of "better not be out there". It comes down to experience and learning to gather the appropriate travel information and dealing with the conditions. There are lots of regional winter activities which will have you wanting to participate in them ... do your research and plan accordingly.
Favorite wintertime activity for many folk is heading to a bar, or more recently ... drug abuse. Wyoming has a history of a high suicide or divorce rates ... "cabin fever" is a real problem for many folk, lack of sunshine and being so confined for months on end are contributors to these problems. All the more evidence that those folks whose families survived isolated ranching and farming operations to achieve "centennial" status were one tough bunch of independent people.
- internet service (My work depends on it) – is it reliable / Are there specific areas of town where it is significantly better or worse than other parts? I’m currently getting over 300 Mbps download speed and over 130 Mbps upload speed with Verizon where I am now. I see Spectrum claiming 1000 Mbps for Cheyenne which seems too good to be true. Can anyone vouch for it? (No Verizon?). Verizon has proven for me to be the best 'net provider in the area, although Mrs Sun uses AT&T service and is happy with that. We have experienced outages at the Cheyenne trunk connection where the 'net is slowed down or has no service ... sometimes for a couple of hours, sometimes for a couple of days. Severe storms seem to be the causation of problems, but traffic accidents can also affect service here. Personally, I've never seen the Cheyenne 'net speeds you mention unless it was on a T3 business connection. Maybe they've improved upon that since I last checked awhile back, but if you require fast reliable service ... you'll want to be in town.
I’ve also read it’s not unusual for service to be down for hours or a day at a time due to weather. Are you able to quantify about how often this happens? As above post, it can and does happen. In this last winter, I recall service being down several times for a couple of days. But that's only to confirm that yes, the service goes go down from time to time, and not a forecast as to how much that can happen in the future. The best I can suggest is that any of the service provider sales reps are less than honest about this concern when they elicit your business.
- Noise – aside from the major roads intersecting town & the railway - any specific areas that would be very noisy during the day or night? (high traffic noise, or loud partying, etc) Obviously, the high traffic main roads of Cheyenne present traffic noise at times, and that includes the interstate corridors. Not uncommon to hear the rasp of a "Jake brake" from a semi around certain locations on the highways, near intersections like I-25 and I-80. Of course, you'll hear the train horns across much of the city from time to time. Your sensitivity to these sounds is a personal issue ... and depending upon wind direction, the sounds can carry quite some distance. IMO, if this is a concern for you, I'd not rent a place until I'd spent a fair amount of time over a couple of days to evaluate the situation. In particular, some days present more rail traffic than others, with the accompanying noise level.
- international travel –If I need to get to Denver International Airport in winter months, is using the Cheyenne Regional Airport feasible in winter? I read that flights can be canceled for a number of reasons including severe weather (which makes sense). Does this happen often? I also read about the shuttle services to/from Denver – but would face the possibility of highway closures due to weather as well. Does this happen often too? We're back to the same variables and considerations for regional travel. There will be days where a flight from CYS will be cancelled, and/or the roads may be problematic. Or the roads may be passable while a flight is cancelled, so the airline may put you on a bus to DIA. Generally speaking, you'll use the same resources to evaluate likely travel conditions at the time you need to be at DIA and plan your actual travel accordingly.
FWIW, I have had about a dozen times in the last decade where I found it prudent to leave Cheyenne a day early to Denver, ahead of a forecast inclement weather situation, and check in to a hotel near DIA and use their shuttle service to get to the airport. The trade-off was my travel South in acceptable travel conditions and a pleasant stay and a nice restaurant meal along with included parking at the hotel instead of a difficult drive to DIA and paying for outlying parking. I think the delta was around $50-75 for a more pleasant business trip rather than getting stressed out about making the DIA connection in a timely manner.
We've friends that use the DIA-Fort Collins shuttle (at Harmony Road lot) when they come to Cheyenne. It apparently runs with more trips/day at convenient times for them to make their flight connections. The Cheyenne-DIA shuttle service is much more limited and can frequently require a multi-hour lay-over at DIA before a flight. Recently, we had neighbors just come back from an international flight at 7PM and their 11PM DIA-CYS shuttle was delayed until 1AM. That was quite an annoyance for them after the hours in transit from a direct Germany-DIA flight and the usual delay getting through customs before being able to leave DIA.
- friendly to ‘outsiders’? – I’m not looking to change anything, am conservative, not looking to add to any ‘californication’ that may already be taking place. Friends to hike with, etc would be nice. All depends upon what you bring to the table here; ie, your concepts of "conservative" may be in actuality quite different from what conservative folk here consider "conservative".
For the most part, Cheyenne is acclimated and welcoming to a lot of folk coming through for various reasons and for different assignments/work durations. Remember, this is a military base town, too ... folk routinely come and go but are residents for awhile and part of the social fabric of the area.
In my experience, folk here are more than willing to be accepting to you to allow you to show your "true colors". Few here are "natives with roots" who reject newcomers, since ... just like you ... they came here from somewhere else. Most of the "attitude" you may get here will be a reflection of what you bring with you, Wyoming folk in general are pretty much "live and let live" types and will give you ample room and opportunity to be a good neighbor. Be one and you'll fit in just fine.
Anything I absolutely must do or not do to not stick out like a sore thumb?The fastest way to stick out here is to tell the long term residents about all your stuff "back home" that should be done here and how much better life was because of those things, and/or how we do stuff wrong out here ... which, as you will quickly find out, is a much different paradigm/reality than a lot of the USA. The local reaction typically will be "if it was so good back there, why don't you go back and leave us alone" with a reminder that I-80 does head out of town.
- Lastly, my move would take place last week in September – should I be worried about hitting a lot of snow or very challenging winds with a small cargo trailer? Approx. 5’x8’ side profile. Main worry is the stretch of I-80 through Nebraska and into WY. Thanks again.
Late September may present some inclement driving conditions some years. You'll find that the regional weather forecasts include winds forecasts. I wouldn't be too concerned about winds and gusts less than 30 mph. Also, the Wyoming (WYDOT) and Nebraska road reports are pretty detailed and will give you info re accidents/road construction/delays pretty much up to the minute. Plan on taking more driving time enroute than the travel/road planners say it will take. It's pretty rare that you'll actually achieve the average road speed that they forecast, especially towing a trailer and ... you may want to stop for rests or to explore a site of interest. For me, leaving myself that time window for those opportunities makes a multi-thousand mile trip much more interesting/entertaining ... and enjoyable. And it leaves you a comfort margin should you encounter vehicle or road difficulties.
Should you see adverse road conditions ahead in the forecast, stop sooner than later when you have the chance to stop at your own choosing with a reasonable place to stay and access to restaurants and possible recreation. The last thing you want to do enroute is to need to stop in a small town on the route where your choices are limited and you're stuck with nothing to do.
You have raised another concern here, however ... how much do you really know about Cheyenne compared to your plans? If I was looking at settling in Wyoming today, I'd not choose Cheyenne ... especially in light of the WAFB project and the impending population explosion and the impact of a whole new money'ed class of folk with a very different interest in the area than historically found here. I'd be looking at Cody, Sheridan/Buffalo, Lander, Gillette, the Star Valley area, ... or up into the NE corner and around the Wyoming Black Hills region. All have their virtues and differing attributes, but to meaningly explore them here given your posting items would take more specifics about what you want to do and your interests. Please bear in mind that so much of what you may take for granted based upon your perceptions from limited travels and time here in Wyoming and from your reference point of your current residency may not fit well ... or may be the ticket to what you're seeking to satisfy.
At this point, I can only wish you well and happy travels. Good luck with your relocation.
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