Climate-gate and Wyoming.. what it means for cap-n-trade? (Sheridan, Sundance: homes, find a job)

[gaduchman]

The "master enviro plan" is to push everyone off the land and into the BIG cities. Not Casper or Cheyenne - but KC, St. Louis, Chicago and points east and south. The enviros don't want anyone violating the earth, not even us natives.

[ElkHunter]

Originally Posted by WyoNewk

I think you're right about the average train car hauling 100 tons, EH, and I think the average coal train is 110 cars, unless it's gone up recently. (They're limited by length for crossings, etc.) If those figures are close, that puts the average coal train at 11,000 tons.
-snip-

Yes, they did go up about 2007. In 2005 and 2006 there was a massive rebuild in the area around here to lengthen sidings. Also, they no longer use a lot of sidings. I used to haul railroaders to catch trains. From Sheridan going West we would pickup/dropoff at sidings: Monarch, Ranchester, Parkman, Aberdeen, Spear, Lodgegrass, Benteen, Garryowen, Dunmore, Hardin, Rowley, Toluca, Corinth, Anita, Huntley, Billings, then finally to Laural.

Then in 2007 on the same run, the only sidings used were, Parkman, Aberdeen, Garryowen, Rowley, Anita, Huntley, and Laural.

So you can see they lost a lot of sidings when they went to 128 cars. Also, when they go East and get to Chadron, NE, they double the trains so they now pull 256 cars headed East.

[WyoNewk]

Wow! 256-car trains?! I'd hate to wait for those things going past me at a crossing in town. I did read this morning about a little derailment near Newcastle, and noticed it said it was a 120-car train.

Thanks for that little tidbit of information, EH. I learned something new today!

[rmmoore]

I have always believed that Global Warming was a freaking joke (to put it nicely). Are we (humans) making an impact on the Earth? Yeah, I believe we probably are, but not in the dire way the GW crowd screams about. Can we do better? Again, yeah, I think so. If we pressure the Earth too much, Mother Nature will correct the problem, whether mankind is still around as part of the left-overs or not, who knows. Bottom line, we have NO control over that, contrary to what the politicians would like us to believe. There are some things they CANNOT control.

When enough houses, subdivisons, strip malls, ect. are built, and enough sewer, water, phone, cable lines, traffic tunnels, ect. are dug on top of the San Andreas Fault, Mother Nature will correct the problem of overcrowding. Get the idea? I believe the same logic can be applied to multiple scenarios.

Volcano's are kind of like the Earth's way of "relieving pressure" and they stink too . IF the surface gets too hot, the core heats up too, and will eventually have to pass gas to relieve that pressure. Get the idea?

I work in the Energy business here in Wyoming. Think of it this way, take a sealed can of soda and heat it, rapidly or slowly, it doesn't matter. The end result will be the same, only the amount of violence will vary. Eventually, it will rupture and release the building pressure inside. The earth is the same. So, those Volcano's that pop off, they release a helluva lot more ash, carbon, and God knows everything else than WE do, every year. And yet, we're still here, except those that lived a bit too close, RIP.

I do not believe we are making that kind of impact on our Planet. And if we do, like I said, Ma' Nature will take of it through earthquakes, volcanoes, hurricanes, tornado's, sunami's (when did they stop being tidal waves?), ect. The various weather "events" are connected. IF the ice caps melt, the ocean currents cool, pushing and developing alternate weather patterns in places where they used to not happen, ect. ect. ect. When the result of that change corrects itself, the earth will "reset", it just may not be the way we WANT it to be. Oh well, too bad. Climate Change is NATURAL. Remember the ice age? Last year had the coldest average temps since they were tracked, and this year is looking to break those numbers. It sure feels like the Earth is just cooking away to me.

Wyoming's energy business will be around for a long time. You can't turn off the tap of natural resources that THIS country, as well as the rest of the world, have depended on for over a hundred years, even over a 10-15 year transition period. Whether it's coal, natural gas, oil, whatever, we are too dependant.

I do believe alternate energy resources will be developed, and should be. But we need to participate in that development rather than be a victim of it. We have always been looked to as an energy supplier, so we need to get on board with the enterprising effort to find NEW energy as well. But no, the sky is not falling.

My company is ready to begin "ramping up", but we're hanging back to see what happens with the current efforts to restrict and choke our business with new taxes. And believe me, that is ALL Cap-and-Trade is, NEW taxes, HUGE new taxes that will only serve to make certain politicians and businessman even richer than they are now. I'm all for earning money and being successful. But please note, I said EARNING it, not STEALING it. C-a-T won't do jack-s..t to reduce so-called GW problems. It will only kill more business, increase economic dependance on big government (who can't take of themselves right now), and grind the middle class into subservience or extinction.

We are in a better position than a lot of places though, to be certain. Having said all that, I don't believe the DC crooks pushing C-a-T will let it go. They are too invested in it, figuratively and literally. Some kind of new Enviromental energy tax will pass, and the consumer will ultimately pay for it. Remember that come Election time if YOUR Congress critter voted for it.

Just my .02

[R82801]

It is unfortunate that reality for Wyoming comes from what might not be reality scientifically speaking. A few years ago California declared they will not be using any coal for electricity. At that time that didn't mean a thing for Wyoming because Nevada picked up all that slack. There was talk of exporting coal to China. The future of coal use, even if the Warm Mongerers get their way is sound in that we just can't make up for the loss of coal. Here is an alternative scenario, I don't think this will happen because I think the global warming hype has seen its high point but in case I am wrong, this is more likely than ending coal mining as we know it in Wyoming.
Instead of shipping coal out by rail from Wyoming to Kansas, Seattle, Texas, and most anywhere else in the country, we will build large scale power plants close to the mine sites. As the CO2 will still be created, the CO2 will be piped out to be injected in oil fields or other underground reservoirs that take the coal out of play so to speak. There are lots of wells in place that could be made into injection wells.

[rmmoore]

"As the CO2 will still be created, the CO2 will be piped out to be injected in oil fields or other underground reservoirs that take the coal out of play so to speak. There are lots of wells in place that could be made into injection wells."

That is already being done in some ways with H2S, a highly toxic component found in natural gas in some formations. CO2 Sequestering is already being looked at, "just in case", utilizing abandoned, depleted, or no longer productive wells for high pressure storage. It's a good solution, if you believe there's a "problem" to begin with. Many energy Companies are in fact looking at this as a way to continue to do business if the GW crowd do in fact slam Cap-and-Trade (Cap-and-Tax) down our throats.

But make no mistake, it WILL be expensive, and in the end, the consumer will STILL pay for it. Not those "greedy" energy Companies the Government wants you think they will "make pay" for their polluting and robbing the consumer. Who is robbing who?

Those energy companies that the Gov.t just loves to villify are also responsible for the standard and quality of life we enjoy today. Look around you and consider how different your life would be without the technology and those "cool" energy using devices that we've grown accustomed too. You want them to disappear? Think about it folks, that's what will happen if this C-a-T comes to pass. Or, you won't be able to afford the energy to use them.

[NVDave]

What people need to understand about the modern environmental movement is that it has all the trappings of religion.

People who dare to question their claims are infidels and are subject to personal and professional attacks.

Environmentalists who dare to not agree with the most extreme "consensus" are treated first as apostates, then shunned as heretics.

There is a non-stop air of moral preening and unctuous sermonizing about their agenda, and they're never concerned just for themselves... no, they're worried about "the planet."[1]

And carbon credits are the equivalent of indulgences in the pre-Luther Catholic Church.

Facts are not going to sway these people. They have the fire of true belief in them, they believe that what they are doing is moral, right and will earn them brownie points in the hearafter... and they don't care how many people they inconvenience or impoverish to do it.


[1] I get so sick and tired of listening to these know-nothing fanatical zealots claiming that "we're endangering the earth!"

Just have a look at the people who died from volcanic eruptions, pyroclastic flow washing over them and incinerating them... or the people washed to their deaths by tsunamis, or hurricanes... and tell me how much of a "threat" man is to the planet.

When Mom Nature wants to, she can (and does) kill us like bugs under a size 12EE bootstomp.

In the "man-nature" relationship, I never have had the hubris to think that I was a threat to anything in the larger scheme of things, much less a planet that has been around for 4.5+ billion years, survived collisions with comets/asteroids/meteors, huge tectonic plate movements, earthquakes, volcanic explosions, the ice age, etc. I've got a pretty firm grasp of who is a threat to whom, and I'm not the one who is a threat, not even if I had the entire strategic arsenal of the world at my disposal. In a 4.5 billion year scheme of things, if I'm able to live to 100 years before I croak, I'll still be worm poop within a few years after that, leaving nothing but some calcified deposits as evidence of my existence. Yea, that poses a huge threat alright.

Then again, I'm an engineer. I know a little bit about math, which helps put this whole thing into perspective. Ask the man on the street this question: "What is a trillion?" (a trillion is a million times a million) and see what you get for answers. There's the reason why so many people are suckered into this. They have no clue at all what sort of economic impact we're talking about here.

[mtlogger]

Originally Posted by NVDave

What people need to understand about the modern environmental movement is that it has all the trappings of religion.

People who dare to question their claims are infidels and are subject to personal and professional attacks.

Ah, the GAIA movement. The Father of GAIA, James Lovelock, himself denounced it last year. http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardia....climatechange
Neither my sons or I will be here in 2020, so why would be I be concerned?

[molon labe]

I believe NARM by itself is sending out @ 24 trains per day... They're currently the largest producer (not sure yet on what the BTM figures will look like after the JRM purchase) out there.

Don't even get me started on the globalwarmingwe'recreatingareligionsowecangetmorem oneyandpower hoax...

[sunbelt]

Originally Posted by gaduchman

The "master enviro plan" is to push everyone off the land and into the BIG cities. Not Casper or Cheyenne - but KC, St. Louis, Chicago and points east and south. The enviros don't want anyone violating the earth, not even us natives.

Its called the re-wilding of America. Originally there were true enviromentalists. Their cause has been hijacked by greedy fascists who just want to take land away from landowners.