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Wouldn't go as far as sucks. Love the Triad. So highly favor the Triad. Like Winston-Salem core over Greensboro. Greensboro for parks and family activities.
This I can agree with. Greensboro's park system is excellent and things to do with a family are really great, but I still think the downtown area is pretty bad.
Downtown Greensboro SUCKS. Winston's core is much more vibrant than Greensboro's. Compare the number of apartments being built in downtown Winston versus Greensboro over the past decade.
Maybe it's my own preference for Greensboro that colors my rankings. I really wasn't impressed at all with Downtown Winston-Salem or Winston in general...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough
Does it really matter?
Each person has the right to like or dislike as they choose.
Just like colors. Some like red, Some like blue. Doesn't mean 1 is better or worse then the other.
I don't live in or near any of them and my area is just as important to the state.
Why is there always someone like this lol. How much of what we talk about on herereally matters, and who gets to decide how much it should matter to the next person?
So not it doesn't really matter but you could have avoided the thread if you were just running in here to complain...
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle19125
Most of Research Triangle Park carries a Durham address and is home to a top 10 university and world-famous medical center but is being ranked behind Greensboro and Winston Salem. Homerism much?
I think to many there may be a subconscious realization of Greensboro historically being over Durham, that plays a part in our perceptions. I'm told that pre-1990 Greensboro was seen as second to Raleigh down here? So historically if it's always been a premier city in the state, it may be harder for us to envision someone surpassing them, even when it's imminent or already happened...
To long time NCers, when did Raleigh jump over Greensboro and how long did it take to have that realization?
Downtown Greensboro SUCKS. Winston's core is much more vibrant than Greensboro's. Compare the number of apartments being built in downtown Winston versus Greensboro over the past decade.
I won't argue with your preference for downtown WS but to say the differences are night and day is clearly hyperbole.
According to census data of downtown tracts, Greensboro had 21.6% in population change between 2012 and 2022. WS had 20.5%.
I'd be interested to see what is counted as a "downtown tract" for the two markets. What new housing supply has delivered in downtown Greensboro since 2012 other than Carroll at Bellemeade? Maybe a couple of smaller retrofits of existing buildings and maybe Greenway at Fisher Park Phase II? That's not very much, but maybe I'm missing something.
Winston has had 3 large projects by the ballpark equivalent to Carroll's project and there is another under construction. 3 more along Fourth Street, another massive one in the IQ and another one in Industry Hill. Plus multiple other existing building conversions. I mean it's not even close to the number of units built.
Maybe there was a larger residential block in the Winston downtown tract to begin with so the percentages are coming in similar (like if they are counting West End and West Salem as downtown?). In any case there is no comparison to the number of units delivered in the core of each city.
I don't think Greensboro is in any danger of being surpassed by Winston. Because while Winston is growing slightly faster, it isn't growing at such a rate that it'll imminently jump Greensboro in population. Additionally, as already mentioned most of the premier entertainment venues of the region are in Greensboro; Greensboro has the livelier downtown and city core. Winston isn't a real threat...
Durham though, is. I'd vote that even as Durham leaps Greensboro soon, Greensboro being the primary city of Carolina's third largest metropolis, is more important than being the secondary city of Carolina's second largest region, but even with that opinion I think it's close and it isn't like I can't be swayed...
I think a major debate for me centers on the group of Asheville, Fayetteville, and Wilmington. Fayetteville by far is the largest city by city population of the three, but also has the smallest metro. At the same time I think Fayetteville's reach throughout SENC is comparable to that of Wilmington's in the same region, and Asheville's in Western Carolina. Yet, the two smaller cities are clearly stronger magnets of tourism with a broader economic and education base, and both probably mean more to the political infrastructure of NC than Fayetteville...
I see all three as a step behind Winston, though I personally prefer Fayetteville over all 3. But Winston is just a larger, more well-rounded city than either...
So I think 3 and 4 with Durm and Gso are debatable, and 6-8 between Avl, Fay, and Wilmington are debatable..
To each their own, but this is the first time I've ever heard anyone say Greensboro has a livelier downtown than Winston. Winston has received national attention and acclaim for its downtown development and scene.
OP, I agree with your list (not necessarily all of the rankings) except New Bern. New Bern is not a top 15 city in my opinion. I would replace New Bern with Boone, Gastonia, or even Burlington.
To each their own, but this is the first time I've ever heard anyone say Greensboro has a livelier downtown than Winston. Winston has received national attention and acclaim for its downtown development and scene.
I think that downtown Winston-Salem looks "grittier" versus downtown Greensboro. South Elm Street is really nice. Downtown Winston-Salem today reminds me of downtown Durham 15 years ago; both having many former tobacco buildings redeveloped. Durham has moved beyond that with new development, since there are no former tobacco buildings to renovate, and Duke School of Medicine has expanded outward into an RTP campus. Unfortunately, much of downtown Winston-Salem's momentum shifted to Charlotte with the medical school hospital being acquired by Atrium Health.
I think that downtown Winston-Salem looks "grittier" versus downtown Greensboro. South Elm Street is really nice. Downtown Winston-Salem today reminds me of downtown Durham 15 years ago; both having many former tobacco buildings redeveloped. Durham has moved beyond that with new development, since there are no former tobacco buildings to renovate, and Duke School of Medicine has expanded outward into an RTP campus. Unfortunately, much of downtown Winston-Salem's momentum shifted to Charlotte with the medical school hospital being acquired by Atrium Health.
This is objectively false. The Atrium money is opening the Eye Center which is projected to provide hundreds of high paying medical jobs and around 100,000 people coming downtown to visit it each year. The Charlotte medical school will be in addition to the Winston one, so the downtown med school will remain there. They are currently grading the central core of the IQ for the next round of development, which Atrium is participating in. If anything, the Atrium merger has helped keep momentum going.
Also grittier is subjective. South Elm isn't any nicer than downtown Winston imo and the IQ redevelopment makes that area look basically brand new. Speaking of gritty, have you checked out the east side of downtown Greensboro? They just condemned the N&O building because homeless people and drug addicts were living in it. Regardless of any of this, there is simply no way to make the case that Greensboro's downtown has as much going on as Winston's. I'm not saying Winston is a better town, there are aspects of Greensboro that I prefer, but it's bizarre to me that people would actually try to argue that Greensboro's downtown is better or even equal to Winston's.
This is objectively false. The Atrium money is opening the Eye Center which is projected to provide hundreds of high paying medical jobs and around 100,000 people coming downtown to visit it each year. The Charlotte medical school will be in addition to the Winston one, so the downtown med school will remain there. They are currently grading the central core of the IQ for the next round of development, which Atrium is participating in. If anything, the Atrium merger has helped keep momentum going.
Also grittier is subjective. South Elm isn't any nicer than downtown Winston imo and the IQ redevelopment makes that area look basically brand new. Speaking of gritty, have you checked out the east side of downtown Greensboro? They just condemned the N&O building because homeless people and drug addicts were living in it. Regardless of any of this, there is simply no way to make the case that Greensboro's downtown has as much going on as Winston's. I'm not saying Winston is a better town, there are aspects of Greensboro that I prefer, but it's bizarre to me that people would actually try to argue that Greensboro's downtown is better or even equal to Winston's.
I used the term "grittier" only because the large inventory of old tobacco buildings in both Durham and Winston-Salem. I probably should have used another term, because these buildings do add character. I just see something different when I look at downtown Greensboro vs Winston-Salem. Yes the old N&O building is an eyesore, but it will soon be demolished. Regarding development, from the outside looking in, it appears that the Greensboro area is landing more of the new projects than Winston-Salem is; that may or may not continue to be the case in the future. Both Greensboro and Winston-Salem are great cities and both have a lot to offer.
Regarding the IQ, all of the low hanging fruit has been picked, because there are no more former tobacco buildings to renovate (along with the generous tax credits). The IQ will likely be expanded over time with new development, but at a much slower pace as new construction is another ballgame. I hope you are correct about Atrium's intensions, but it does seem, at least for now, the focus is on Charlotte.
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