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Maybe it's my own preference for Greensboro that colors my rankings. I really wasn't impressed at all with Downtown Winston-Salem or Winston in general...
Why is there always someone like this lol. How much of what we talk about on herereally matters, and who gets to decide how much it should matter to the next person?
So not it doesn't really matter but you could have avoided the thread if you were just running in here to complain...
I think to many there may be a subconscious realization of Greensboro historically being over Durham, that plays a part in our perceptions. I'm told that pre-1990 Greensboro was seen as second to Raleigh down here? So historically if it's always been a premier city in the state, it may be harder for us to envision someone surpassing them, even when it's imminent or already happened...
To long time NCers, when did Raleigh jump over Greensboro and how long did it take to have that realization?
"but you could have avoided the thread if you were just running in here to complain..."
Applies to you also!
You are complaining about someone else complaining.
I used the term "grittier" only because the large inventory of old tobacco buildings in both Durham and Winston-Salem. I probably should have used another term, because these buildings do add character. I just see something different when I look at downtown Greensboro vs Winston-Salem. Yes the old N&O building is an eyesore, but it will soon be demolished. Regarding development, from the outside looking in, it appears that the Greensboro area is landing more of the new projects than Winston-Salem is; that may or may not continue to be the case in the future. Both Greensboro and Winston-Salem are great cities and both have a lot to offer.
Regarding the IQ, all of the low hanging fruit has been picked, because there are no more former tobacco buildings to renovate (along with the generous tax credits). The IQ will likely be expanded over time with new development, but at a much slower pace as new construction is another ballgame. I hope you are correct about Atrium's intensions, but it does seem, at least for now, the focus is on Charlotte.
Greensboro overall is landing more projects, like Toyota and Boom, but we're talking about downtowns here. Winston's downtown has received much more investment than Greensboro's downtown and honestly it isn't even remotely close. Maybe that changes going forward, but just looking at the list of reasonable projects (ie I don't think the Ryan project is feasible) there is much more in the hopper for downtown Winston in the future as well. There is a massive infrastructure and grading project going on right now to prepare the next phase of the IQ. Ride on Salem Parkway and you'll see what I mean.
I will end our discussion with a whole hearted agreement that both are great cities and as I pointed out earlier I think Greensboro has more in the way of family entertainment and park space. For some reason, however, the downtown area hasn't kept up. I have opinions on why that is the case but I'll just leave it here. Thanks for the respectful conversation.
This is objectively false. The Atrium money is opening the Eye Center which is projected to provide hundreds of high paying medical jobs and around 100,000 people coming downtown to visit it each year. The Charlotte medical school will be in addition to the Winston one, so the downtown med school will remain there. They are currently grading the central core of the IQ for the next round of development, which Atrium is participating in. If anything, the Atrium merger has helped keep momentum going.
Also grittier is subjective. South Elm isn't any nicer than downtown Winston imo and the IQ redevelopment makes that area look basically brand new. Speaking of gritty, have you checked out the east side of downtown Greensboro? They just condemned the N&O building because homeless people and drug addicts were living in it. Regardless of any of this, there is simply no way to make the case that Greensboro's downtown has as much going on as Winston's. I'm not saying Winston is a better town, there are aspects of Greensboro that I prefer, but it's bizarre to me that people would actually try to argue that Greensboro's downtown is better or even equal to Winston's.
You and I are on the same page with this. I believe that we are dealing with a handful of posters that are in a state of delusion.
. Unfortunately, much of downtown Winston-Salem's momentum shifted to Charlotte with the medical school hospital being acquired by Atrium Health.
That’s definitely not true. New WF Development continues in WS’s Innovation Quarter and the rest of center city. I hear of many tourists and outsiders glowingly refer to downtown Winston as a destination. National media write articles and do stories about Downtown WS. It is considered trendy and vibrant. Downtown Greensboro? Not so much….
That’s definitely not true. New WF Development continues in WS’s Innovation Quarter and the rest of center city. I hear of many tourists and outsiders glowingly refer to downtown Winston as a destination. National media write articles and do stories about Downtown WS. It is considered trendy and vibrant. Downtown Greensboro? Not so much….
The topic of this thread is "Top 15 NC Cities...", not the "Top 15 NC City Downtowns". Some prefer Greensboro while others prefer Winston-Salem. I like them both. I slightly prefer Greensboro for several reasons, including its large number of excellent public and private colleges and universities, parks, and other reasons. But both cities are great.
The concept of redeveloping former tobacco buildings, donated by Reynolds, in eastern Winston-Salem was terrific, and the resulting "IQ" has been a success by any measure. However, there are no more former tobacco buildings to renovate, and IQ growth momentum has stalled in the past few years as a result; new construction will be enormously costly and slow, and competition with Charlotte for these new facilities will be fierce. Yes, there is preparation for an expansion for the IQ south of I-40 Business, but that may or may not occur, depending on Atrium's focus (possibly an Eye Center if money can be raised). I think that it was a HUGE MISTAKE to allow Atrium Health to take over the WF-Baptist Health hospital and demand that a new branch of the WF medical school be built in Charlotte. Atrium is based in Charlotte; where will their loyalties lie? Remember Piedmont Airlines, Wachovia, BB&T and others?
In terms of Greensboro and Winston's downtowns. Greensboro's has a few advantages, namely its ballpark is more integrated into the downtown core. Having the Center City and LeBauer Parks, Cultural Arts Center, Library, Children's Museum, History Museum, and the crown jewel Tanger Center all in the same area is great. Other than that, Winston is far superior in every other way. Definitely more vibrant, and its more vibrant over a much larger area. I live in Greensboro, and hadn't been in downtown Winston on a weekend night in many many years. Had a date night a few months ago on a Saturday night, and I was amazed at how busy it was, people everywhere, and the difficulty in finding on street parking. This was on a chilly December evening, I can imagine how it is in the warmer months.
In fact, a co-worker was telling me how her and her husband were thinking of a weekend away from the kids and finding a nice hotel in Greensboro. I told her no... go get a hotel in Downtown Winston, and explore the area.. its on a different level than Greensboro.
You and I are on the same page with this. I believe that we are dealing with a handful of posters that are in a state of delusion.
I'm not following your logic. How does either city's downtown being "better" than the other make it any more important or relevant to the state? And neither's has propelled its respective growth as fast or faster than #1, #3 or #4.
Have mercy. This thread devolved into a Triad War.
Bound to happen. Either that or a Charlotte vs Raleigh war. Good thing for the ignore function.
Anyway, The only questionable city on my list was Gastonia. I see Jacksonville listed on other's lists. Can someone enlighten me more on Jacksonville. Other than it being home to Camp Lejuene I don't know much about its importance.
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