Does anyone consider Pennsylvania to be a "Border State"? (Erie: stats, beach)

[jtab4994]

Originally Posted by North Beach Person

Ridge was awarded the Bronze Star with V device during his Viet Nam tour. Yeah, I looked.

Yeah I thought people knew that.

The boondoggle ferry plan was obviously a favor to Ridge.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by North Beach Person

Pennsylvania isn't a border state in any way. Everyone knows it's either the heart of the Midwest or Deep South.

Maybe the rest of Pennsylvania is in one of those regions, but the eastern part of the state* is part of the Northeast for sure, and the Southeast is right on the heavily urbanized Northeast Corridor.

*Roughly speaking, anything east of a north-south line drawn through Reading, though I think some might also include Dauphin (Harrisburg), Lebanon ahd Lancaster counties in this region. The latter two, however, also comprise Amish country, which is a world apart from the rest of the state.

Oh, and: "the heart of the Midwest"? Yes, I agree that Western Pennsylvania is definitely Midwestern, but you still have some 800 miles to go before you reach the Heart of America, where I grew up. And there are two Midwests, split by the Mississippi — but Chicago is the capital of both.

[North Beach Person]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

Maybe the rest of Pennsylvania is in one of those regions, but the eastern part of the state* is part of the Northeast for sure, and the Southeast is right on the heavily urbanized Northeast Corridor.

*Roughly speaking, anything east of a north-south line drawn through Reading, though I think some might also include Dauphin (Harrisburg), Lebanon ahd Lancaster counties in this region. The latter two, however, also comprise Amish country, which is a world apart from the rest of the state.

Oh, and: "the heart of the Midwest"? Yes, I agree that Western Pennsylvania is definitely Midwestern, but you still have some 800 miles to go before you reach the Heart of America, where I grew up. And there are two Midwests, split by the Mississippi — but Chicago is the capital of both.

Philadelphia? That's Deep South.

Western Pennsylvania is not Midwestern. If anything it's Appalachian.

What's happening is laying out exactly as I said here:
https://www.city-data.com/forum/66572194-post3.html

[Ohiogirl81]

Originally Posted by jtab4994

To answer whether anyone "considers" Pennsylvania a Border State in the usual sense, the answer is generally going to be No.

Perhaps because a frighteningly large group of Pennsylvania residents don't know that Pennsylvania is a Great Lakes state. Just because you can't walk across the border doesn't mean it's not a border state.

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

I agree that Western Pennsylvania is definitely Midwestern, but you still have some 800 miles to go before you reach the Heart of America, where I grew up. And there are two Midwests, split by the Mississippi — but Chicago is the capital of both.

Ha! A friend from Iowa doesn't consider Ohio or even Michigan to be Midwest, let alone Pennsylvania. LOL

Originally Posted by North Beach Person

Western Pennsylvania is not Midwestern. If anything it's Appalachian.

Erie is midwest Buffalonian.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by North Beach Person

Philadelphia? That's Deep South.

Western Pennsylvania is not Midwestern. If anything it's Appalachian.

What's happening is laying out exactly as I said here:
https://www.city-data.com/forum/66572194-post3.html

Um, no. Hard no. At the outside, it's borderland, like Maryland next door* and Baltimore down the NEC.

The accents, attitudes and history of this city all point away from the South, even if Penn's Medical Department (now School of Medicine) trained the South's doctors before the Civil War. And even though there were Southern sympathizers who fought abolitionists here in that same era, they didn't even capture as much sympathy here as their Baltimore counterparts did.** Sheesh, this city even sent the first Black Federal troops to fight for the Union; they trained at Camp William Penn in Cheltenham Township.

It also experienced a massive influx of Blacks from the real South during the Great Migration of the interwar years. That automatically disqualifies it from being part of the South.

And tbh, Southern cities aren't industrial in character — not even Baltimore feels Southern for that reason. (Birmingham, "the Pittsburgh of the South," is the lone exception, but it wasn't founded until after the war.)

Even the Ragin' Cajun of politics, James Carville, left it out of the South: "From Paoli to Penn Hills it's all Alabama in between." That excludes the two biggest metros. (Your point about Appalachia is well taken, however: Pittsburgh is actually the largest city in Appalachia.)

I also think I can speak to this subject because I grew up in one of the real "border states," one that had slavery until the passage of the 13th Amendment yet never officially seceded from the Union, though half the state tried to. I do, however, map my native and adopted home states onto each other — yet I also maintain that only part of my native state is Southern, and that part includes neither of its two biggest cities and metros.***

*Remember, this state is on the Mason side of the Mason-Dixon Line. You don't enter "Dixie" until you're in Maryland. (And that's why the Marylanders pitched a fit when Pennsylvania put up welcome signs with the tourism slogan at the time, "America Starts Here," along the Pennsylvania-Maryland border during the Rendell administration.)

**The words to Maryland's official state song from 1939 until 2021, "Maryland, My Maryland," are a cry to Marylanders to rally 'round the Confederate cause. That's why they ceased to be sung.

***Although the Battle of Westport — "the Western Gettysburg" — took place in what's now Kansas City, and there was one other significant Civil War battle in nearby Lexington.

[North Beach Person]

You really aren't catching what I'm putting down.

Short version: don't take it so seriously. Did you look at the link?

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by North Beach Person

You really aren't catching what I'm putting down.

Short version: don't take it so seriously. Did you look at the link?

I did, and I guess it flew right over my head.

Since I occasionally engage in "Is Missouri Southern?" back-and-forth, I don't catch tongue-in-cheek references to these sorts of arguments or discussions.

[jetgraphics]

Perhaps they should look into maximizing the oil production and refining capacity of W. PA, and use that as an excuse to run oil tankers out of Erie.

[Craziaskowboi]

Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81

Perhaps because a frighteningly large group of Pennsylvania residents don't know that Pennsylvania is a Great Lakes state. Just because you can't walk across the border doesn't mean it's not a border state.

You can, though, because you're from Ohio. In fact, the Western Reservists can turn it into wine too.

[RetireinPA]

Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81

Perhaps because a frighteningly large group of Pennsylvania residents don't know that Pennsylvania is a Great Lakes state.

my 60 years here do not support that. perhaps the people in philly might think that - its not like they consider anything west of harrisburg part of PA. There is a reason why refer to philly as 'west jersey' ;-)


Unless you are like me that frequented Brigantine or Wildwood growing up, 'going to the beach' meant Presque Isle.


what might be MORE true is that people do not know lake erie has canadians on the other side. In fact any of the lakes, including Gitche gumee. They think the great lakes are US lakes, like we own em.