Medical "miracles" and the power of prayer (believe, atheists, prayers)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I'm curious if any other atheists here believe in the power of prayer in bringing about medical "miracles" in believers. Now, don't just jump in and say "Idiot, of course we don't, or we wouldn't be atheists" I am an atheist. I would call myself a 6.9 out of 7 on Dawkin's scale. I still believe that prayer has power over the body for those who believe it does.
I do NOT...let me repeat... I do NOT believe that some higher power miraculously heals the body. I do, however, believe that there is a lot we don't understand about the human body and how it works. I think that people, in some cases, have the power to heal from within.
I think it is possible for someone to believe so firmly that a "god" (of whatever type they believe in) is going to cure them, that they themselves cause a cure to "miraculously" take place, even for serious diseases, less so for injuries.
Therefore, it can be said that prayer does have the power to bring about a cure, by indirect means, can it not?
I do believe that the human mind plays a significant role in our health and it doesn't involve anything miraculous. If someone is diagnosed with a serious illness like cancer a positive attitude is going to be much more helpful than just giving up. There are limitations to positive thinking and I don't believe that anyone can take a tumor the size of an orange and just make it go away by their own willpower. Of course that sort of thing is nonsense but an individual with a strong will to live who is taking every action within their power to become healthy has an advantage over someone who has lost the will to live.
Therefore, it can be said that prayer does have the power to bring about a cure, by indirect means, can it not?
What do you think? Discuss!
Sadly, I see no evidence that this is true. I have lost several people in my life to illness who were deeply religious. All of their faith and prayers and good attitude and will to live did not save them. Others of faith also prayed for them.
I believe in the placebo effect and prayer can work along the same lines. That being said, a placebo doesn't cure or heal, yet the patient claims to feel better.
How many prayers does it take for an amputee to regrow a limb? No one knows as it has yet to happen.
I believe in the placebo effect and prayer can work along the same lines. That being said, a placebo doesn't cure or heal, yet the patient claims to feel better.
How many prayers does it take for an amputee to regrow a limb? No one knows as it has yet to happen.
A placebo DOES cure. It does do real cures. In about 25-30% of the time, a placebo will effect a real cure. That's why they must be included in any valid test. What this shows is that belief in a treatment, be it a sugar pill or a prayer or laying on of hands or anything else will mobilize the sick person's immune system and cure the disease. It does not do impossible things like regrow a limb (unless the patient is a lizard).
The prayer tests showed that a prayer has zero effect on any patient who did not know that they were being prayed over, whether or not the patient was a believer in the power of prayer. However, for a believer, if the patient did know he was being prayed for, there was a slight increase in cures.
This demonstrated that the prayer is a placebo. Nothing more. But a placebo is often worth trying because of the immune stimulus in some people. Doctors will sometimes prescribe a placebo to see of the placebo effect will work. They have also found that patients that pay a high price for a drug get a better effect than those who pay a pittance. Perceived value stimulates the immune system. A valuble thing for the drug companies.
Yes, the placebo effect. Thank you, I was having trouble describing what I meant. That's exactly it.
@Visvaldis Of course it is only the power of suggestion. That was the point I was trying to make. They believe it will help, and therefore it does. Maybe if I had remembered to use the word "placebo", my post would have made more sense.
@Sizzly I wasn't saying that prayer will heal, only that in some cases, it can heal.
@MontanaGuy I don't believe it is miraculous either, that's why I used the word "miracle" in quotes. "Miracle" as in, doctors can't explain it, therefore the religious folks believe it must be divine intervention.
Sadly, I see no evidence that this is true. I have lost several people in my life to illness who were deeply religious. All of their faith and prayers and good attitude and will to live did not save them. Others of faith also prayed for them.
Let me guess, then when they pass away the ones doing all the praying say something along these lines; "He/she has gone home to the house of the lord", or "He/she is in a better place free of pain and suffering", or "Sometimes we can't explain why these things happen, we trust in the lord and his master plan".
Yeah, those lines are sure hits to help the survivors heal. Tell them what they want and need to hear I guess. The more I talk and think about how religious people justify their gods the more pissed off I get. *calm down big guy, just calm down* (that was to myself)
Prayer healing? I don't buy it, never have. Though I must admit that it seems those who are sick and believe in a god seem a little more at peace at the fact they are terminal. I guess whatever works for them, who the hell am I to ever tell someone how to think, especially someone who is sick, they have it bad enough without some athiest lile me make things gloomier. The older I get the better I get at keeping my mouth shut...except online:-)
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
. Others of faith also prayed for them.
