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I simply think that alcohol defenders do so out of anger of realizing that they're of such weak-will that they feel the need to lose their problems in a bottle of beer or brandy. It's also partially the immaturity factor. I very much remember back in college that those who partook in alcohol were blatantly the most immature people on campus.
Most of us drink simply because we enjoy it, not to get drunk. The Good Lord gave us these beverages as part of the bounty of our world and we humans have enjoyed them almost since day one. Jesus himself was a noted winemaker who didn't hesitate to use his skills to salvage a wedding reception from disaster.
Just like with guns, it's not alcohol that kills, but the people who abuse it. And if you outlaw it, only outlaws will have alcohol. Atlanta has long rejected those who would deny us nature's bounty. As recently as the 1960s, we were the moonshine capital of the world.
Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from criticism or disapproval.
The opponents of "political correctness" seem to get tangled up in that. There's nothing prohibiting us from using insulting language or from using ethnic, sexual or other slurs. Fire away!
However, that doesn't mean everyone else has to remain silent when I speak. If they find something I say offensive, they have the right to express disapproval. All of that is 100% legal.
The opponents of "political correctness" seem to think they should not only have the right to say whatever they want, but the special right to not be criticized for it.
I have every right to call somebody a mean old, conniving pot-bellied battleaxe, even though many would consider such talk inappropriate and insulting. Free speech gives me the absolute and complete right to say it, whether it's "politically correct" or not. But I don't have any right to not be criticized for talking that way.
Good point! I was just going to say the same thing. If the government bans everything that is considered bad for you, then we would be just like the "utopian" society in the movie "Demolition Man". You have to remember, Republicans are for less government economically, but they are for more government involvement when it comes to social/moral issues (abortion, homo-sexuality, sex, drugs, alcohol, religion, etc.), especially with the Christian conservatives. That is why Libertarian is the party that best fits my beliefs.
Back to the topic of alcohol, it does not kill if consumed responsibly and in moderation. In fact, it has been proven that red wine (1 or 2 glasses) is actually good for you and may reduce the risk of cancer.
What a fallacious statement. Prohibition of Alcohol was repealed with the 21st amendment and should have no bearing on conversation.
You're correct. I should have been more clear. Originally, nothing relating to alcohol was stated in the Constitution. It was prohibition by way of an amendment which made it illegal, and it was its overturn which legalized it.
That said, it doesn't mean that alcohol should be legal. It's simply legalized poison.
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If you arguing that this amendment applies to personal ownership, that's pretty arguable. Some people would say that ownership of firearms really only applies to a state-regulated militia...not individuals, but that's immaterial to this discussion.
There's nothing to support that interpretation when it is thoroughly analyzed and researched.
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Doesn't mean it should be banned. To take your logic to its most extreme conclusion we may as well ban any other foodstuffs that has been deemed a health hazard because of high fat content.
Alcohol should be banned because it causes harms to others, not necessarily because it causes harm to one's self. High fatty foods do not cause harm to anyone other than the people who are eating it. In other words, only those who eat it face life-ending harm.
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Debateable.
Regardless of whether you think it is debatable, a well-armed citizenry makes it less likely for the government to send troops into one's home. Even the founding fathers argued this point.
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Goverment is compose of people and can and often be manipulated by the actions of an elite group and often with the support of a clear majority. African Americans certainly weren't afforded much protection by an "intrusive" government(insert Jim Crow/Black Codes). But again that's an argument for another day.
I haven't contended otherwise.
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And yet you are willing to use big government to enforce your point-of-view on one aspect of human life while being perfectly fine with that same big government leaving another alone. Some would call that hypocrisy.
Here's your problem. Alcohol kills OTHER people. It harms OTHER people. I haven't argued that government should harm other people. I'm simply talking about alcohol.
With alcohol, it is not an issue of "rights", given that the presence of one to consume alcohol often leads to the harm of other people, taking away their life and, hence, their rights.
You can't go up to someone and shoot them. Someone may feel that such is their right, but they can't do it, because it harms someone. Likewise, someone can't rape someone at will, even though they may feel they have the right to do it. Why? Someone is harmed in the process. Likewise, arguing about "rights" and drinking alcohol is tantamount to saying that one has the right to do anything, even if it harms someone else.
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Is it safe to say that you love big government when it applies to forcing others to accomodate your personal belief system?
Actually, I despise big government. Speaking out against the dangers of alcohol and giving reasons for why it should be banned is not being supportive of big government. After all, if someone were being robbed, do you think that the person committing robbery should go scott-free? Therein lies your argument. Being against alcohol is sound and logical, and it makes sense for why it should be banned.
Those who chose to own handguns and keep them in their homes also pose a risk to others around them, children especially.
You won't find disagreement with me. However, that's why there are trigger-locks and lock-boxes.
Secondly, as stated, alcohol doesn't protect us against the government, but guns do. Without guns, an out-of-control government could usurp the powers of its citizenry. It is only a well-armed citizenry that could keep in check such a force.
Of course you would. I wouldn't expect otherwise. But I do so wish that folks like you would quit with your postering of being against big government interference and then loving that same big government when it comes to your own pet causes. Just sayin' I guess.
I have no problem with those of the Occupy Wallstreet movement being able to protest, as long as they do so peaceably and within reason. Interrupting the peace during nighttime hours is wrong. Furthermore, whether you agree with getting permits is beside the point, they didn't get the permits.
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Debateable on whether or not the Occupy Atlanta folks were causing that much noise. I work downtown everyday and walk through Woodruff park daily and was there when those kids were protesting. I heard no loud noises on a consistent level nor any constant screaming from the megaphone.
If that's the case, then I might reconsider my point about Occupy. That said, there comes a time when your protest becomes loitering and "urban camping", in which it prevents other people from being able to enjoy the park.
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I'd wager that the Atlanta Police with the help of an increasing pro-suburban conservative local media embellished the hazards alledged to be coming from the Occupy Atlanta folks. Stuff like that tends to happen when the status quo is upset that someone may be demanding a larger piece of the American economic pie.
What conservative local media are you speaking of? The AJC leans left, and the news networks are either moderate (2, 5, 11) or slightly left of center (46).
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Long story short: You and others like you tend to pick and chose your big goverment poison to like or hate. Just for that reason alone, your protestations on these issues should be addressed with a big fat ignore.
Isn't murder illegal? It harms OTHERS, doesn't it? Doesn't alcohol do the same? Does alcohol protect the rights of people from the government? No on all accounts.
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I'm buying my Rice Wine tonight!
Oh yes, because it makes you more of an adult.
Last edited by Stars&StripesForever; 11-13-2011 at 03:04 PM..
Most of us drink simply because we enjoy it, not to get drunk. The Good Lord gave us these beverages as part of the bounty of our world and we humans have enjoyed them almost since day one. Jesus himself was a noted winemaker who didn't hesitate to use his skills to salvage a wedding reception from disaster.
Just like with guns, it's not alcohol that kills, but the people who abuse it. And if you outlaw it, only outlaws will have alcohol. Atlanta has long rejected those who would deny us nature's bounty. As recently as the 1960s, we were the moonshine capital of the world.
And what makes you "enjoy" alcohol?
Could it be:
-the buzz
-losing your inhibitions
-loosening up
-forgetting your problems
All of the above are things that weak-willed and weak-minded people do.
Or is it to:
-Feel as though you're sitting at home with your "adult beverage"? After all, it gives one a little bit of ego boost to be enjoying something that is so "adult".
By the way, Atlanta wasn't the moonshine capital. The Appalachian region has long been known for moonshine. I'm aware that parts of Cabbagetown were known for moonshine, the result of Appalachian settlers moving to Atlanta to work in the nearby mill.
By the way, it's debatable as to whether the wine spoken of during Jesus' time was fermented or unfermented (grape juice). Research falls more heavily on the latter side.
-losing your inhibitions
-loosening up
-forgetting your problems
All of the above are things that weak-willed and weak-minded people do.
It does help people loosen up, and that's by no means a bad thing. Human beings put way too many unreasonable worries, fears, pressures and expectations on themselves.
As with all things in life, moderation and understanding are critical. Literally anything can be abused. That includes being wound too tightly, becoming obsessed with religion or moral rectitude, and trying to micro-manage every aspect of your own life and the lives of others.
A good bottle of wine or a glass of aged Scotch whiskey in a crystal glass are among the finer achievements of human beings on planet Earth. They gather us together and help make us social. They are arguably the ultimate culmination of the farmer's art.
Good drink has been enjoyed and remarked upon since the earliest recorded history. Men and women, including our most accomplished scholars, statesmen, teachers, preachers and healers have all partaken.
And it's well known that moderate drinkers enjoy many direct health benefits as well as the more intangible kind.
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By the way, Atlanta wasn't the moonshine capital. The Appalachian region has long been known for moonshine. I'm aware that parts of Cabbagetown were known for moonshine, the result of Appalachian settlers moving to Atlanta to work in the nearby mill.
I'd respectfully disagree. Consider this passage from Atlanta and Environs (The University of Georgia Press; The Atlanta Historical Society: 1987):
"Atlanta also was [in the 1960s], as in the past, the non-tax-paid liquor capital of the world, providing a market for 90 percent of the 50,000 gallons of moonshine produced each week in some 650 stills operating daily in the Georgia hills."
See also, Comments of J.R. McGovern, Director of the Metropolitan Commission on Crime and Juvenile Deliquency.
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By the way, it's debatable as to whether the wine spoken of during Jesus' time was fermented or unfermented (grape juice). Research falls more heavily on the latter side.
The Book itself talks about wine in several hundred places and that's good enough for me. Nowhere in any translation have I seen the phrase unfermented grape juice. The Jews in Jesus' day did not prohibit wine, nor did his rock, Saint Peter, who founded the Christian church. 2000 years later they still don't have a problem with it.
It does help people loosen up, and that's by no means a bad thing. Human beings put way too many unreasonable worries, fears, pressures and expectations on themselves.
As with all things in life, moderation and understanding are critical. Literally anything can be abused. That includes being wound too tightly, becoming obsessed with religion or moral rectitude, and trying to micro-manage every aspect of your own life and the lives of others.
A good bottle of wine or a glass of aged Scotch whiskey in a crystal glass are among the finer achievements of human beings on planet Earth. They gather us together and help make us social. They are arguably the ultimate culmination of the farmer's art.
Good drink has been enjoyed and remarked upon since the earliest recorded history. Men and women, including our most accomplished scholars, statesmen, teachers, preachers and healers have all partaken.
And it's well known that moderate drinkers enjoy many direct health benefits as well as the more intangible kind.
Too many ways that it does damage to the body for one slight benefit to make it acceptable.
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I'd respectfully disagree. Consider this passage from Atlanta and Environs (The University of Georgia Press; The Atlanta Historical Society: 1987):
"Atlanta also was [in the 1960s], as in the past, the non-tax-paid liquor capital of the world, providing a market for 90 percent of the 50,000 gallons of moonshine produced each week in some 650 stills operating daily in the Georgia hills."
See also, Comments of J.R. McGovern, Director of the Metropolitan Commission on Crime and Juvenile Deliquency.
A market means that people in Atlanta purchased it from moonshiners who were making it in the mountains of north Georgia. Atlanta wasn't the place it was being made in great amounts.
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The Book itself talks about wine in several hundred places and that's good enough for me. Nowhere in any translation have I seen the phrase unfermented grape juice. The Jews in Jesus' day did not prohibit wine, nor did his rock, Saint Peter, who founded the Christian church. 2000 years later they still don't have a problem with it.
We should ban cars too since people kill people in cars.
I'm not sure how you can say you hate big government and regulation with a straight face and still want prohibit alcohol and other drugs. You can kill people with anything, so let's not sell anything dangerous since consenting adults don't know what's good for them.
This is why I hate when people lump conservatives with libertarians.
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