Charter status gives Fulton school officials unprecedented power over personnel (Atlanta: to buy, public school)
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I hope this helps to reform the schools that truly need it.
"Students in Fulton County won’t have to spend a year in a classroom with new teachers deemed incompetent, under a policy update that gives unprecedented authority in Georgia for a superintendent to fire teachers..."
How will the administration determine if a new teacher will fail in the classroom? New teachers undergo pressures from every angle when they enter a new school. They have to learn the ropes of the new administration, learn how to effectively teach a range of students with varying backgrounds, learn and alter curriculum to the new standards that seem to come out yearly, etC etc etc. Teachers are in a profession with little respect, but that should be among the most respected. I really hope that firing of new teachers won't be based solely on test scores. A teacher in North Fulton will have students from vastly different backgrounds than teachers in South Fulton, therefore, test scores will be dramatically different. A teacher in North Fulton will have to work half the amount to achieve a certain test score than a teacher in South Fulton will have to work. That's not to say that students in different areas should be coddled or not expected to be high achievers, but there are barriers beyond the teachers control in lower socioeconomic situations. I also don't want to make it sound like teachers in high income areas have it much easier, I'm just pointing out that there are different pressures and variables associated with different groups of students. I agree that teachers should not teach if they don't know how, but a lot of different variables have to be considered before a teacher is fired. We don't want an APS cheating repeat in Fulton.
Actually, a relative is a teacher on the southside of town and he said teachers in wealthier areas DO have it easier. They have resources that he and other teachers don't get on the southside. Teachers in wealthier areas get to do wishlists of what they want for their classes -printers, computers, etc... and the parents BUY IT. On the southside, not only do the parents not buy anything for the class, HE has to buy the paper for half of his class bc the kids don't even come to school with that half the time. He sure doesn't get printers, computers, etc.
Also, in wealthier areas, the parents have more education and generally, education is valued - this comes out in different ways - kids do their homework, they care about school (as opposed to being apathetic). In his case, kids show up with no homework done, cannot read half the time, appear in his class after having been out of school (due to family moving around, etc.) for over a month or two, saddled with homelife issues that hurt concentration, and just apathetic bc when your parent doesn't think school is important, why would the child. These barriers make teacher harder than teacher in an environment where the children are prepared, eager and excited to learn.
In wealthier areas, parents are not working two jobs. Do you know what this translates to? More parents who have time to help their kids with schoolwork, make sure that they come to school, help out at the school, etc. When you teach children who are really poor, the parents are doing their best but it is hard to keep up with whether little Johnny has done his homework when you are preoccupied with providing your child FOOD and SHELTER.
When your children in your class cannot read, how are they supposed to pass the CRCT? And yes, the teachers get punished. There is no leeway given if the teacher is passed children that cannot read from the grade below. Those children are counted in the number of children that did not pass the CRCT and then the principal is trying to figure out what is wrong with the teacher.
And don't get me started on the process for moving children into special needs classes. That process can take MONTHS. Meanwhile, the child is falling behind daily and losing interest.
So, yes, teachers in wealthier areas do have it easier. My relative continues to teach on the southside bc he wants to make a difference with this population of students. He gets paid very little for all of his headache and long hours.
That being said, I think that the main problem with the public school system is that it appears to be run by people who have no clue on how to run a BUSINESS. Failing businesses don't stay in business. Yet, failing schools keep running year after year. I think the administration is problematic and that corporate officials need to be brought in to run the school system. Get rid of all the dead weight teachers and principals who "know somebody" but really are lazy and not doing their jobs and just sitting around collecting a paycheck. Stop coming up with stupid protocols that change every year before the teachers can even learn how to math one way good, they change it - and then there is no advance training. You don't go to a company and expect employees to perform wout training yet we do this with new protocols, approaches that we want the teachers to adopt in teaching year after year with no adequate training. And they are handling our CHILDREN. The public school system administration is really shocking and very sad. I say get rid of all of the administrators and cronyism and start over. Heck, let the CEO of Google or someone run the school system and I bet it would be in a lot better shape. Somebody who actually knows how to run a BUSINESS bc at the end of the day, why is a school any different. There is a product (child's education) and there are means to produce the product. Everything must be done towards this goal, not other goals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCATL
I also don't want to make it sound like teachers in high income areas have it much easier, I'm just pointing out that there are different pressures and variables associated with different groups of students.
Last edited by LovelySummer; 04-13-2013 at 09:15 PM..
Folks made a big deal about the Atlanta cheating scandal. Do you really think it would have been better if Dr. Hall had more power? And there are all sorts of ways that administrators can cheat.--One is to pressure teachers to pass students that deserve to fail to increase graduation numbers. In underachieving schools a teacher will never get in trouble with the administration for passing students that deserve to fail, but a teacher that fails "too many" students are garunteed to get a visit from the administration. (If an administration can't cheat to get test scores up, they will cheat to get graduation rates up).
Actually, a relative is a teacher on the southside of town and he said teachers in wealthier areas DO have it easier. They have resources that he and other teachers don't get on the southside. Teachers in wealthier areas get to do wishlists of what they want for their classes -printers, computers, etc... and the parents BUY IT. On the southside, not only do the parents not buy anything for the class, HE has to buy the paper for half of his class bc the kids don't even come to school with that half the time. He sure doesn't get printers, computers, etc.
Also, in wealthier areas, the parents have more education and generally, education is valued - this comes out in different ways - kids do their homework, they care about school (as opposed to being apathetic). In his case, kids show up with no homework done, cannot read half the time, appear in his class after having been out of school (due to family moving around, etc.) for over a month or two, saddled with homelife issues that hurt concentration, and just apathetic bc when your parent doesn't think school is important, why would the child. These barriers make teacher harder than teacher in an environment where the children are prepared, eager and excited to learn.
In wealthier areas, parents are not working two jobs. Do you know what this translates to? More parents who have time to help their kids with schoolwork, make sure that they come to school, help out at the school, etc. When you teach children who are really poor, the parents are doing their best but it is hard to keep up with whether little Johnny has done his homework when you are preoccupied with providing your child FOOD and SHELTER.
When your children in your class cannot read, how are they supposed to pass the CRCT? And yes, the teachers get punished. There is no leeway given if the teacher is passed children that cannot read from the grade below. Those children are counted in the number of children that did not pass the CRCT and then the principal is trying to figure out what is wrong with the teacher.
And don't get me started on the process for moving children into special needs classes. That process can take MONTHS. Meanwhile, the child is falling behind daily and losing interest.
So, yes, teachers in wealthier areas do have it easier. My relative continues to teach on the southside bc he wants to make a difference with this population of students. He gets paid very little for all of his headache and long hours.
That being said, I think that the main problem with the public school system is that it appears to be run by people who have no clue on how to run a BUSINESS. Failing businesses don't stay in business. Yet, failing schools keep running year after year. I think the administration is problematic and that corporate officials need to be brought in to run the school system. Get rid of all the dead weight teachers and principals who "know somebody" but really are lazy and not doing their jobs and just sitting around collecting a paycheck. Stop coming up with stupid protocols that change every year before the teachers can even learn how to math one way good, they change it - and then there is no advance training. You don't go to a company and expect employees to perform wout training yet we do this with new protocols, approaches that we want the teachers to adopt in teaching year after year with no adequate training. And they are handling our CHILDREN. The public school system administration is really shocking and very sad. I say get rid of all of the administrators and cronyism and start over. Heck, let the CEO of Google or someone run the school system and I bet it would be in a lot better shape. Somebody who actually knows how to run a BUSINESS bc at the end of the day, why is a school any different. There is a product (child's education) and there are means to produce the product. Everything must be done towards this goal, not other goals.
I was in complete agreement with you until the last paragraph.
To compare a school to a "business" raises the question: What is its product? Why of course, the students. They're treated just like products, and teachers are treated just like workers in the factory.
Raking teachers over the coals isn't the answer. It never has been. The answer lies much deeper than such vigilantism.
I didn't say rake all teachers over the coals. Only the ones that should not be teaching ... just like anyone else who is not good at his/her job is removed. Adminstration should be raked before teachers however. I think most problems are with the adminstration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by toll_booth
Raking teachers over the coals isn't the answer. It never has been. The answer lies much deeper than such vigilantism.
Yes. It really is time to get rid of Soviet style school systems. I believe Memphis, which had 90% of all poor performing schools in all of TN has done this by putting in reforms including going all charter. The fact that it is so hard to file a teacher - how does this help the students or quality of education.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LovelySummer
I didn't say rake all teachers over the coals. Only the ones that should not be teaching ... just like anyone else who is not good at his/her job is removed. Adminstration should be raked before teachers however. I think most problems are with the adminstration.
Actually, a relative is a teacher on the southside of town and he said teachers in wealthier areas DO have it easier. They have resources that he and other teachers don't get on the southside. Teachers in wealthier areas get to do wishlists of what they want for their classes -printers, computers, etc... and the parents BUY IT. On the southside, not only do the parents not buy anything for the class, HE has to buy the paper for half of his class bc the kids don't even come to school with that half the time. He sure doesn't get printers, computers, etc.
One would think, however, that the wealthy areas on the southside would do the same thing as the wealthy areas in other parts of town. There are certainly plenty of people on the southside who are loaded.
Actually, a relative is a teacher on the southside of town and he said teachers in wealthier areas DO have it easier. They have resources that he and other teachers don't get on the southside. Teachers in wealthier areas get to do wishlists of what they want for their classes -printers, computers, etc... and the parents BUY IT. On the southside, not only do the parents not buy anything for the class, HE has to buy the paper for half of his class bc the kids don't even come to school with that half the time. He sure doesn't get printers, computers, etc. .
I agree and disagree with parts of what you said. I also know a good amount of people who teach, and I am also involved with education, so when I said teachers in poor versus wealthy areas have different challenges, that was from some of my own experience. I agree, teachers on the south side use a lot of their own money to buy things for their classrooms, they have to deal with the ills associated with poverty (parents working multiple jobs, etc. etc.). Teachers working in wealthier districts or areas also have their own sets if problems. Yes, they might have more involved parents, but they can also have students with heavy drug problems, administration bowing to a powerful group of parents who think they know best, etc etc. Regardless of where a teacher teaches, they are a teacher, a psychologist, a social worker, a babysitter, a disciplinarian, a life coach, and on and on. My point is, teachers in different areas have different sets of challenges, but they all have challenges. It's impossible not to when you work with sometimes hundreds of students on a daily basis.
Just because a student comes from a wealthier family, doesn't mean they have parents who force them to do their schoolwork. In my experience, it is actually wealthier students who often have the parents blaming the teacher when their child can't pass. We can't generalize, not every parent in a wealthy district will blame the teacher, and not every parent working 2 jobs in a tougher area doesn't care about their child's education. Kids in all socioeconomic classes have been passed along - I know teachers in both socioeconomic areas with children who can't read.
I'm sure your relative is a great teacher on the south side, as are mine, but I hesitate to say that any teacher has an easier job than the other. There are countless problems in our society that teachers everywhere deal with daily.
My whole point is that on top of changing standards, rewriting curriculum, dealing with a diverse group of students, and pressure from administration, teachers should not be judged only on test scores. Countless variables go into test scores. You could have an awful Math 1 teacher in a great district with students who pass (70%) and move onto the next grade level with a great teacher who has to re-teach them algebra so that they can learn physics. It happens everywhere, and teachers should be judged on a variety of factors, not only test scores of their students. I hope that the powers that be in Fulton are smart about evaluating their teachers before choosing to fire them in the middle of the school year.
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