It sounds like Georgia Lt. Governor Casey Cagle has a broader vision for MARTA... (Atlanta: neighborhood, buses)

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by MattCW

I'm not "wishing" for anything, it's going to happen...it IS happening. As I've said before, I can't say much more than that.

Until you do say more than that, I don't believe you. The East Side BeltLine, paved and unpaved, is far too popular and used to be torn up for railroad approaches. This is especially true since neither the state nor GDOT have made any significant progress for expanding passenger rail in the metro. The only rails we'll see along that route are going to be Streetcars and LRT.

Otherwise, you'll have a near revolt of neighborhoods and investors alike. So, either put up actual evidence, or don't act surprised when people don't buy it.


As for Lt. Govenor Cagle, I sincerely hope he has a good transit adviser and plan if he's thinking of doing such a thing as consolidating the metro's agencies. Especially if he's thinking of drastically changing the plans right now.

I hate the idea of MARTA needing a re-brand though, and that whole idea just stinks of petty control issues. If you want an agency to operate outside the core 5, fine, use GRTA. Let MARTA operate commuter rail, heavy rail, light rail (and streetcars), city buses, and para-transit within the core 5, while GRTA gets the ex-urban buses, and trains.

[primaltech]

Yeah, that doesn't make any sense for commuter trains coming down into Downtown from the Duluth-Norcross corridor, to use the Beltline. It would need to use the Amtrak line, which goes behind Atlantic Station and GA Tech. Full size trains aren't going to be running on the Beltline with people and their kids walking right next to the tracks. That would be just ridiculous and inappropriate for that corridor.

However if we're talking a commuter LRT line using something like the Siemens S70, with train length closer to how Charlotte Lynx is configured, then I guess maybe. But that seems like a ridiculous amount of redundant overlap with the existing HRT line.

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by Gulch

You can keep wishing for this to happen all you want, but it won't.

Why not? That's how commuter rail functions.

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by primaltech

Yeah, that doesn't make any sense for commuter trains coming down into Downtown from the Duluth-Norcross corridor, to use the Beltline. It would need to use the Amtrak line, which goes behind Atlantic Station and GA Tech.

What? Amtrak will also be rerouted onto the beltline when this happens for better access into the MMPT/ACS/Five Points/Whatevernameyouwanttogiveit.

Full size trains aren't going to be running on the Beltline with people and their kids walking right next to the tracks. That would be just ridiculous and inappropriate for that corridor.

Well, no. If Atlanta chooses to keep the trail, then there would be separation. No different from any of the numerous roads/sidewalks that already parallel tracks in many suburban downtown areas.

However if we're talking a commuter LRT line using something like the Siemens S70, with train length closer to how Charlotte Lynx is configured, then I guess maybe. But that seems like a ridiculous amount of redundant overlap with the existing HRT line.

The corridor is wide enough for FRA-rail (commuter, regional, Amtrak, etc.) and either a trail or light rail system. But not all three. It will [soon] be Atlanta's choice which one of the two they want to keep in addition to the FRA-rail.

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by MattCW

I'm not "wishing" for anything, it's going to happen...it IS happening. As I've said before, I can't say much more than that.

Let me guess, you were sworn to secrecy and that if you told someone they would kill you.

Whatever.

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by MattCW

What? Amtrak will also be rerouted onto the beltline when this happens for better access into the MMPT/ACS/Five Points/Whatevernameyouwanttogiveit.

Well, no. If Atlanta chooses to keep the trail, then there would be separation. No different from any of the numerous roads/sidewalks that already parallel tracks in many suburban downtown areas.

The corridor is wide enough for FRA-rail (commuter, regional, Amtrak, etc.) and either a trail or light rail system. But not all three. It will [soon] be Atlanta's choice which one of the two they want to keep in addition to the FRA-rail.

Why does everyone always forget about the information in the link below when threads like this emerge? The link below has been posted many times.


Track Twenty-Nine: Envisioning a New Rail Hub for Atlanta: Part III

^^^^^^
Everyone participating on this thread--please read.

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by aries4118

Why does everyone always forget about the information in the link below when threads like this emerge? The link below has been posted many times.


Track Twenty-Nine: Envisioning a New Rail Hub for Atlanta: Part III

^^^^^^
Everyone participating on this thread--please read.

I have read that numerous times, I have not forgotten anything about it. I simply disagree with much of the details.

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by Gulch

You can keep wishing for this to happen all you want, but it won't.

Exactly. Any freight or commuter rail down the Eastside Beltline proposal would be DOA.

Originally Posted by bu2

At a certain point, express buses just work so much better than commuter rail. Less capital, more flexibility and better service in speed and in delivery to the passengers' destinations.

HOT lanes with express buses are the best answer outside the 5 core counties. There's not the density or demand, nor is there likely to be in the next half century.

GRTA already does this. The ridership is not very high.

I'd like to see Metro Atlanta model a commuter rail system after Chicago's or Philly's--both expansive and well-traveled systems.

[primaltech]

Hard to argue with someone who's clearly from the future. I guess I'm just not in the know of these level of details of how the 2020's will go down.

Anyway, while I'd be happy about commuter rail, and any kind of transit for Atlanta, I can't help but shake my head about how all of this could and should have been MARTA heavy rail, and could and should have been already in place over 20 years ago. One seat, one tech, connecting all of the 5 main counties to Five Points, in a nice hybrid commuter to subway system implementation. That was the vision and the plan of MARTA, that was not even barely halfway realized. Had Cobb and Gwinnett and the state government played nicely from the start, and if not for local NIMBY's preventing the Northlake/Tucker line or the northwest line, we'd probably have stations in place by now in Kennesaw and Buford and downtown Lawrenceville, and most of it would have been 50% or more paid for by the feds.

Every time I drive by the excellent Gold line stations, especially Brookhaven, I think about how that could have also been in Norcross and beyond. Smyrna park & ride station. Marietta could have had an underground station right at the square, much like Decatur.

I guess my point is that we (the metro) should pick one train technology, one system, and stick with it. Under one agency, covering the whole region. The idea that Doraville would have a commuter rail stop. Doraville IS a commuter rail stop. All we've ever had to do is just extend MARTA and build new branch lines. We've had the hub in place since before I was born, but we only have 4 or 5 spokes, and they're all too short. So to remedy that we're going to build a new hub and start from scratch with a regional system, built on top/ right next to the other one? Hardly seems efficient in any sense.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by MattCW

The corridor is wide enough for FRA-rail (commuter, regional, Amtrak, etc.) and either a trail or light rail system. But not all three. It will [soon] be Atlanta's choice which one of the two they want to keep in addition to the FRA-rail.

Look, considering the City is pushing so hard to get LRT on the Corridor, and assuming what you insist is true, is, then I see two things happening.

One: the city is not in the loop with such disruptive plans, and has no idea they're coming. Because of this, the city is pushing ahead with both trails and LRT in the East-Side corridor, using the trail's success as a model and example to continue funding the project. Wnenever the Feds and State decide to make their plans public, having not kept either the city or the people in the loop, there will be massive public and civil push back. That pushback will be coming from a set of neighborhoods whoes history includes killing many interstates, and who will fight for the BeltLine as envisioned.

Two: the city does know, and doesn't seem to want it to happen since they are still pushing to put LRT on the BeltLine corridor. They are still leveraging the eastside trail as a success of urban development, and an attraction for development. Wnenever the Feds and State decide to make their plans public, having not kept the people in the loop, and without the city's support, there will be massive public and civil push back. That pushback will be coming from a set of neighborhoods whoes history includes killing many interstates, and who will fight for the BeltLine as envisioned.

Just remember, the city, via ABI owns these streatches of land. Without their cooperation, or a lengthy court process, nothing will be built there that they don't want.