If young people went out and vote trump wouldnt win (Atlanta: home, elementary schools)
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Yes, I acknowledge that racism, bigotry and all other forms of prejudice and hate do exist. But I do not believe that is the major driving force behind this election. I can't discount the fact that there are Muslims, Latinos, blacks and other groups that voted for him, not in small numbers either.
My point is that Democrats (as an organization) need to start working with the folks on the other side to better understand complexity of the motivations behind the Trump vote. That's the only hope the party has of recovering the presidency in 4 years. Just calling 50% of voters "racist" with a broad brush is not a way to inspire progress. All it does is create more division -- and voters that felt like their only option was to hold their nose and click "Trump" on the ballot will never be heard.
No third party candidate will have a chance until we, the voters, are brave enough to take the risk of voting for them.
No third party candidate will have a chance unless the entire American system of government is changed. Third parties could be useful if we had a parliamentary system, or used ranked voting to cast our ballots. But we don't, which means there are two political parties with candidates who can win. Anyone who was eligible and didn't vote for Clinton helped elect Trump. I'm not casting any judgement when I say that, but we've got to accept some basic realities in order to ever move forward.
There's something in play that a lot of people are forgetting (or conveniently choosing to ignore) with this election.
Not everyone votes for the same reason.
Or to put it another way, there are all kinds of reasons why people prefer one candidate over another. Just because a particular candidate fails one of your dealbreaker criteria, doesn't mean that everyone who voted for that person approves of that quality; dismissing every policy and character issue your opponents have with your candidate and instead assinging to all of them the most horrible, awful motivation you can think of may make youfeel better and make ypu feel justified in dismissing and ignoring everything your opponents say, but it's really just intellectually lazy and self-deceiving.
There are plenty of people (even a majority?) who voted for Clinton despite massive misgivings about her and doubts about her character, honesty, and methods of government, because they considered Trump's policies and/or character flaws to be a greater threat to themselves or the country. So why does it seem ok for them tohold their collective noses and do that, but not for their opponents to do so?
Now, I voted for Johnson. But I know a lot of people, male and female, who voted for Trump. Nearly all of them have at least a BS in a technical field and work in STEM careers. Without exception, every single one of them had (a d still have) major misgivings about him, his comments, and his speaking before thinking. Yet they held their noses and still voted for him because they perceived Clinton to be a more concrete threat to the country as a whole (especially in terms of national security and economics). As one person put it, they saw Clinton as a known monster chasing them, and Trump as the giant cliff; they'd rather see if they can fly than climb into her maw. And the surveys bear this out--a substantial majority ofthose who voted for him are very apprehensive, even disgusted, by him.
I don't know how many would remember this, but back in 2008 the wailing and gnashing of teeth coming from the right was very similar in many ways to what we're seeing today from the left. There were no riots, and the fears being expressed primarily involved economics, big government, and religious persecution, but it was the exact same gloom-and-doom "the republic is lost" and "I weep for my country" and "this place will be a hellhole" that we see happening now. And yet, after eight years, the system worked as designed, and exwrted a powerful moderating influence. The same thing is going to happen with the Trump administration (even more so, given the much smaller majority the Republicans hold).
So chill out.
I would disagree, if Trump pursues prosecution of Clinton, problems will break loose quickly, that will be a straw that cannot be undone. Even those that voted for her may not like her completely, but that's dictatorial and he has already alluded that it's definitely still on the table and I wouldn't expect the Reps to slow that one bit.
On top of that, the people he's putting into power are fringe and scandal laden, Chris Christie, Sarah Palin, much less it's expected he'll probably put someone on the Interior that will be an executive from the oil industry, which means likely fracking and drilling at our national parks, this has been a push for awhile.
Furthermore this is a man that cannot even get financing from banks in our country, but now he's in charge of our whole economy and he's gone bankrupt 3-4 times, I won't even go into climate change or the Supreme Court.
Furthermore, when, and I say when, because it's inevitable that a police shooting or something will happen and race relations will stir again, how does he respond? How he does will shape the country dramatically and could determine serious and chaotic issues.
On top of all that, his hate rhetoric struck a nerve on both sides, where staunch positions are being entrenched. I know numerous people that say the relationships with their own family members, parents etc. are altered, it's not just Dems, but Reps angry at them too.
He has perverted this us against them mentality and that has resulted in them not even being able to begin to have a conversation with their parent, brother, and may not be able to because it's too problematic, there are just too many discrepancies, anger, rage to even start a dialogue, at least in 08 you could.
These are very real issues, that a major percentage of the country is facing now.
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Originally Posted by Hokiehaven
I would disagree, if Trump pursues prosecution of Clinton, problems will break loose quickly, that will be a straw that cannot be undone. Even those that voted for her may not like her completely, but that's dictatorial and he has already alluded that it's definitely still on the table and I wouldn't expect the Reps to slow that one bit.
On top of that, the people he's putting into power are fringe and scandal laden, Chris Christie, Sarah Palin, much less it's expected he'll probably put someone on the Interior that will be an executive from the oil industry, which means likely fracking and drilling at our national parks, this has been a push for awhile.
Furthermore this is a man that cannot even get financing from banks in our country, but now he's in charge of our whole economy and he's gone bankrupt 3-4 times, I won't even go into climate change or the Supreme Court.
Furthermore, when, and I say when, because it's inevitable that a police shooting or something will happen and race relations will stir again, how does he respond? How he does will shape the country dramatically and could determine serious and chaotic issues.
On top of all that, his hate rhetoric struck a nerve on both sides, where staunch positions are being entrenched. I know numerous people that say the relationships with their own family members, parents etc. are altered, it's not just Dems, but Reps angry at them too.
He has perverted this us against them mentality and that has resulted in them not even being able to begin to have a conversation with their parent, brother, and may not be able to because it's too problematic, there are just too many discrepancies, anger, rage to even start a dialogue, at least in 08 you could.
These are very real issues, that a major percentage of the country is facing now.
Now that the election is over, I'm not sure that Trump would pursue an indictment of Madame Secretary with the gusto that he once indicated. He really has nothing to gain by intervening at this point.
The wild card is our current President. He's in a position to pardon her IF charges are filed prior to Inauguration Day. If the Foundation investigation is still ongoing after the Changing of the Guard, then she's at the mercy of a whole new set of players over at the DOJ, and it wouldn't bode well for her.
Personally, I'm sick of the whole damn thing. I don't think I could muster up any righteous indignation at Obama if he did pardon her; I'm too exhausted and it's time to move on.
I would disagree, if Trump pursues prosecution of Clinton, problems will break loose quickly, that will be a straw that cannot be undone. Even those that voted for her may not like her completely, but that's dictatorial and he has already alluded that it's definitely still on the table and I wouldn't expect the Reps to slow that one bit.
On top of that, the people he's putting into power are fringe and scandal laden, Chris Christie, Sarah Palin, much less it's expected he'll probably put someone on the Interior that will be an executive from the oil industry, which means likely fracking and drilling at our national parks, this has been a push for awhile.
Furthermore this is a man that cannot even get financing from banks in our country, but now he's in charge of our whole economy and he's gone bankrupt 3-4 times, I won't even go into climate change or the Supreme Court.
Furthermore, when, and I say when, because it's inevitable that a police shooting or something will happen and race relations will stir again, how does he respond? How he does will shape the country dramatically and could determine serious and chaotic issues.
On top of all that, his hate rhetoric struck a nerve on both sides, where staunch positions are being entrenched. I know numerous people that say the relationships with their own family members, parents etc. are altered, it's not just Dems, but Reps angry at them too.
He has perverted this us against them mentality and that has resulted in them not even being able to begin to have a conversation with their parent, brother, and may not be able to because it's too problematic, there are just too many discrepancies, anger, rage to even start a dialogue, at least in 08 you could.
These are very real issues, that a major percentage of the country is facing now.
And he STILL hasn't released his tax returns. He has something(s) to hide...bigly.
Clinton wasn't perfect, I can agree with you on that, but Trump is a buffoon, and a reality star, really?
Clinton had his flaws, but Trumps are notoriously worse in every way, he's had at least one affair we know about, married three times, abused one, not to mention the horrible business dealings he's done, he's a con man, plain and simple.
Bill and Hillary are notoriously worse in nearly every way. As for Trump, I can't really disagree.
Now that the election is over, I'm not sure that Trump would pursue an indictment of Madame Secretary with the gusto that he once indicated. He really has nothing to gain by intervening at this point.
The wild card is our current President. He's in a position to pardon her IF charges are filed prior to Inauguration Day. If the Foundation investigation is still ongoing after the Changing of the Guard, then she's at the mercy of a whole new set of players over at the DOJ, and it wouldn't bode well for her.
Personally, I'm sick of the whole damn thing. I don't think I could muster up any righteous indignation at Obama if he did pardon her; I'm too exhausted and it's time to move on.
He's already said in the past day that he would consider it still.
I agree if he can pardon her in time, it's better for the country if it's not on the table, but if Trump and the Repubs push it, we're all in it deep, it will get ugly.
Bill and Hillary are notoriously worse in nearly every way. As for Trump, I can't really disagree.
I personally think driving hate, i.e. Nazi Germany style us against the immigrants as one of your major platforms is the worst thing you can do, it's reminiscent of a dictatorship, but I'm tired of the arguments cause that is the mentality he has fed us and clearly wanted from the people.
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