CSX possibly closing 3 of 4 Atlanta yards (Marietta, Fairburn: property taxes, living, estate)

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by bu2

And it might have been much better if they simply sold the land rather than telling the developer what to do.

I mean, maybe, but MARTA put out bids for projects from private developers. Were the projects maximized 100% towards profit? No. Does it matter that much? Not really.

See, the neighborhoods got their input, the developers are still making enough money to justify the projects while paying MARTA lease rights. The neighborhood gets more ammenities, the municipality gets more tax revenue from the development, the developers make money, new residents have the option of living in a truly transit-connected place, MARTA gets lease revenue, and MARTA gets more riders.

That sounds pretty stupid successful to me, and a huge win all around.

Just selling off the land

Experience is that government doing real estate is frequently a disaster and often filled with fraud.

And I'm sure you have the evidence to justify stopping MARTA's TOD efforts on those grounds. Care to share it, or are you just generalizing in vague yet harmful ways?

But they really don't have that many TODs. Most are just completed or under construction.

The key word you left out is "yet". The TOD efforts span across everything from "Phase-1 construction complete" to "starting planning efforts", with new projects rather steadily coming into view.

Chamblee, East lake, Avondale, King Memorial, Arts Center, Peachtree Center, Edgewood, Lindbergh and North Springs all have something going on with them, and I'd be very surprised if that was the end of that.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

I mean, maybe, but MARTA put out bids for projects from private developers. Were the projects maximized 100% towards profit? No. Does it matter that much? Not really.

See, the neighborhoods got their input, the developers are still making enough money to justify the projects while paying MARTA lease rights. The neighborhood gets more ammenities, the municipality gets more tax revenue from the development, the developers make money, new residents have the option of living in a truly transit-connected place, MARTA gets lease revenue, and MARTA gets more riders.

That sounds pretty stupid successful to me, and a huge win all around.

Just selling off the land



And I'm sure you have the evidence to justify stopping MARTA's TOD efforts on those grounds. Care to share it, or are you just generalizing in vague yet harmful ways?



The key word you left out is "yet". The TOD efforts span across everything from "Phase-1 construction complete" to "starting planning efforts", with new projects rather steadily coming into view.

Chamblee, East lake, Avondale, King Memorial, Arts Center, Peachtree Center, Edgewood, Lindbergh and North Springs all have something going on with them, and I'd be very surprised if that was the end of that.

You are generalizing in vague yet harmful ways. Across the country, city governments getting involved in real estate is usually a failure, costing money and causing a degradation in the neighborhood. The same is true for corporations that try to go outside their area of expertise, costing the company money and causing a failure.

The capitalist system works. The socialized economic system that you seem to be supporting has not.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by bu2

You are generalizing in vague yet harmful ways. Across the country, city governments getting involved in real estate is usually a failure, costing money and causing a degradation in the neighborhood. The same is true for corporations that try to go outside their area of expertise, costing the company money and causing a failure.

The capitalist system works. The socialized economic system that you seem to be supporting has not.

We were talking, explicitly, about MARTA as an entity doing more TOD, to which you replied by saying government never gets it right, to which I replied that MARTA, the people we were originally talking about, does just fine with its TOD. Since, you know, we were talking about MARTA taking the opportunity to do more TOD.

MARTA isn't even remotely running a socialist system here. They're leasing property they own to a private developer who themselves make a profit from individuals choosing to pay money to live in those privately-developed residential units, and shop in those privately-developed stores.

Heck, the tax money that was gathered to finance the initial property purchase was even collected from an operating capitalist system (the sales tax requiring the sale of goods), at which point the agency paid fair value for the land. The money that's made from the leasing will allow the agency to stretch what limited tax support it has further, while simultaneously improving the system by adding locations and amenities within its reach.

I'm supporting MARTA taking key ideas, which have proven to be successful both elsewhere and in this very metro, from the private sector to better operate as a public agency. Something which should be right up your alley, given all the rhetoric. Yet, here we are.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by bu2

You are generalizing in vague yet harmful ways. Across the country, city governments getting involved in real estate is usually a failure, costing money and causing a degradation in the neighborhood. The same is true for corporations that try to go outside their area of expertise, costing the company money and causing a failure.

The capitalist system works. The socialized economic system that you seem to be supporting has not.

Capitalism worked so great for us in 2008.

[atlHawks]

The whole sale process has been such a secret. Barley any news. Come to think of it, Apple likes to keep quiet. Who knows 😉

[MattCW]

There's no "sale process yet" they're only dismantling the tracks. Any potential negotiations are still very preliminary and at the stage where there won't be any public info. Nothing unique going on here.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Capitalism worked so great for us in 2008.

It was the government getting involved in real estate. They told the banks in 1998 that they had to make questionable loans if they wanted to keep their charters. So they made questionable loans and figured out a way to package them and sell them. It was all fine until the bubble burst. And you had government affiliated FNMA and Freddie Mac backing it all up and allowing it to continue. If John McCain and about a dozen other Republican Senators had been listened to by the administration, FNMA would have been reigned in around 2005 and it might have been much milder.

[atlHawks]

CSX terminal Tilford Yard could be Atlanta's next big redevelopment

CSX Corp. continues taking steps that could transform its nearly 300-acre Tilford Yard into the latest planned mixed-use redevelopment along Atlanta’s northwestern edge.

CSX selected Colliers International – Atlanta as its real estate adviser for the future of Tilford Yard, which stretches just west of Marietta Road northward toward Cobb County.

Tilford Yard is a more than 60-year-old terminal that sprawls across increasingly valuable land on the edge of West Midtown and the Upper Westside. The area is filled with new homes, apartments, planned loft office projects and many of the city’s most popular restaurants and nightspots. The western side of massive terminal is low-density single-family housing.

Two catalysts for many of the recently proposed projects include the 280-acre Westside Park at Bellwood Quarry and a future segment of the Atlanta Beltline.

Colliers International will study the best value and potential market interest in Tilford Yard, CSX said in a statement.

“This aligns with CSX’s focus on evaluating every aspect of our network, operations and assets to ensure we’re delivering value that meets the company’s long-term business needs,” the company said.

CSX will continue active rail operations on the tracks that run along the western edge of this property

[bu2]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

We were talking, explicitly, about MARTA as an entity doing more TOD, to which you replied by saying government never gets it right, to which I replied that MARTA, the people we were originally talking about, does just fine with its TOD. Since, you know, we were talking about MARTA taking the opportunity to do more TOD.

MARTA isn't even remotely running a socialist system here. They're leasing property they own to a private developer who themselves make a profit from individuals choosing to pay money to live in those privately-developed residential units, and shop in those privately-developed stores.

Heck, the tax money that was gathered to finance the initial property purchase was even collected from an operating capitalist system (the sales tax requiring the sale of goods), at which point the agency paid fair value for the land. The money that's made from the leasing will allow the agency to stretch what limited tax support it has further, while simultaneously improving the system by adding locations and amenities within its reach.

I'm supporting MARTA taking key ideas, which have proven to be successful both elsewhere and in this very metro, from the private sector to better operate as a public agency. Something which should be right up your alley, given all the rhetoric. Yet, here we are.

No we were talking specifically about MARTA acquiring new property and directing the development on it. You changed the topic to TODs on existing MARTA parking lots. That is a significant difference. Government shouldn't be in the real estate speculation business.

[chiatldal]

Originally Posted by bu2

It was the government getting involved in real estate. They told the banks in 1998 that they had to make questionable loans if they wanted to keep their charters. So they made questionable loans and figured out a way to package them and sell them. It was all fine until the bubble burst. And you had government affiliated FNMA and Freddie Mac backing it all up and allowing it to continue. If John McCain and about a dozen other Republican Senators had been listened to by the administration, FNMA would have been reigned in around 2005 and it might have been much milder.