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To add, there was a thread from several years ago with someone in the film industry who complained about the lack of "above the line" (read: Corporate) film work in Atlanta. His feedback is still accurate today.
A huge thing I notice in the metro is people assume that because it's a high profile industry means it only brings in high paying roles, and its usually the opposite that's more true. High profile companies are very much penny pinchers and the reason they move to states outside of their parent state is because they see opportunity to run operations on a budget with the aid of tax reforms, lack of union assist, and entry level talent meaning they are able to more easily get employees to adhere to ridiculous policies/work hours/pay without much retaliation.
Yeah. Its ok to be optomistic about Atlanta's future, but that was a REALLY weak list. Most of its, "Something might happen-people are talking about it!!!!"
It was a weak list! I saw a lot of what-ifs and the thing with that is you never know what's going to actually happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1
I think it's more of a "reasons to be optimistic if you're a hard-core urbanist". Most of the things on the list are things that the vast majority of people don't care two licks about. Sidewalk cafes? Impending growth? Intown architecture?
This made me laugh. I thought the list was a joke.
To add, there was a thread from several years ago with someone in the film industry who complained about the lack of "above the line" (read: Corporate) film work in Atlanta. His feedback is still accurate today.
Not surprised to see this. In so many ways Georgia is a low-wage state.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Need4Camaro
A huge thing I notice in the metro is people assume that because it's a high profile industry means it only brings in high paying roles, and its usually the opposite that's more true. High profile companies are very much penny pinchers and the reason they move to states outside of their parent state is because they see opportunity to run operations on a budget with the aid of tax reforms, lack of union assist, and entry level talent meaning they are able to more easily get employees to adhere to ridiculous policies/work hours/pay without much retaliation.
That's why I don't get too happy when I see companies move here. They move here because they know they can treat workers anyhow and get away with it. The country on a whole have allowed unions to be weakened and companies feel absolutely no threat in states like Georgia.
I worked for a delivery company the name starts with a U and ends with an s. I'm not lying when I was told that they could work us 8 hours without a meal break because such a thing is not required in GA. I said federally if you work someone 8 hours you must provide a meal break and the person said not in GA. I was beyond shocked. I even asked twice to make sure I heard right.
I worked for a delivery company the name starts with a U and ends with an s. I'm not lying when I was told that they could work us 8 hours without a meal break because such a thing is not required in GA. I said federally if you work someone 8 hours you must provide a meal break and the person said not in GA. I was beyond shocked. I even asked twice to make sure I heard right.
Take a look at DC, Virginia and Maryland which were referenced in another thread. Same deal.
To keep it on topic I don’t expect GA to be at the bleeding edge of labor law. But individual companies often keep consistent policies across all states, meaning that an Atlanta location would be the same as CA or NY. In that case they’d be required to honor it if it’s their stated policy. Obviously UxS doesn’t follow that.
To add, there was a thread from several years ago with someone in the film industry who complained about the lack of "above the line" (read: Corporate) film work in Atlanta. His feedback is still accurate today.
I'd really love to see their data. This would assume that many people make far less than $42,000 since so many make far above that. I don't know of many who make less than $42,000 unless they are part-time PAs. But I know many, many who make a lot more than that.
And that thread is from 2013, well before things started really getting big around here. There is still not much "above the line" action here though. But, that's a small portion of the workers on a project. That's like claiming that having a large business office opening in midtown is pointless because the CEO doesn't live here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Need4Camaro
A huge thing I notice in the metro is people assume that because it's a high profile industry means it only brings in high paying roles, and its usually the opposite that's more true. High profile companies are very much penny pinchers and the reason they move to states outside of their parent state is because they see opportunity to run operations on a budget with the aid of tax reforms, lack of union assist, and entry level talent meaning they are able to more easily get employees to adhere to ridiculous policies/work hours/pay without much retaliation.
You guys should really ask the people who actually work in the industry. First of all, the film industry is largely union. There are some non-union productions out there, but absolutely no legitimate, real production is running non-union. And, let me assure you that the contracts do not allow them to run ridiculous schedules or ridiculous policies without extra pay. The union standards agreement which covers most employees is over 100 pages long and includes all the rules about working hours, holidays, meals, rest periods, per diem, benefits, travel, and everything else. I'm not going to link to it, but you can find it online. Keep in mind that any wages in that document are minimums. Few make the minimum.
Disclaimer: I am in a more skilled position than many, so my rate is higher. But, I am somewhere in the upper-middle of pay range as far as crew goes. Most working people by mid-November have worked approximately 215 days (45th week * 5 days - some days off). I have worked only 178 days so far this year, nearly 40 days fewer than most. I have already surpassed a six-figure income this year, not including meal penalties, per diem, tool pay, mileage, and other costs. Just labor. I also have health insurance fully paid for, retirement accounts paid into, and other benefits. Even those who are making half of what I make are still coming in well over $50k. On top of all this, almost all of my meals are provided with at least two fully-catered meals per day, two smaller prepared meals per day, and and endless selection of drinks and snacks. Oh, and then I rent equipment to productions for a whole lot more.
The lowest rate a basic union crew member can make on most standard productions is in the upper $20s per hour. Most make in the low to mid $30s. And the bigger the budget, the higher that number can get. Yes..there are low-budget productions which pay lower.
Are most film crew people rolling in Bentleys and eating only at Empire State South and Bacchanalia? No. Of course not. But to insinuate that the film industry is proliferated largely by a bunch of low-income people scraping by while working in sweatshop like conditions under whip-cracking producers is largely unfounded. At least, I've seen very little of that.
Now, sure...PAs, stand-ins, and general office workers are not making those rates. But most of your crew are doing quite alright.
I worked for a delivery company the name starts with a U and ends with an s. I'm not lying when I was told that they could work us 8 hours without a meal break because such a thing is not required in GA. I said federally if you work someone 8 hours you must provide a meal break and the person said not in GA. I was beyond shocked. I even asked twice to make sure I heard right.
I had a discussion on another forum with a guy a few years ago on this topic. He apparently ran a business and forbid his employees to take any sort of meal break. He expected them at their desk for the full day. When asked why he had such policies, figuring that it must have been critical work, his response was simply "I didn't have to allow them by law and I wasn't running a charity". I am so glad I don't have to work for people like that. And if any of you do, I really feel for you.
... pouring $50 billion into MARTA and expanding the train system everywhere, and Cobb and Gwinnett joining the sales tax area.
That's what's so obviously needed, for decades and decades now, but that's STILL not what's happening. Because, Georgia.
Georgia (and the OTP suburbs) seems to be always the great holder-back of Atlanta.
The city of Atlanta is roughly 10% of metro Atlanta. Put another way, 90% of metro Atlanta has decided to not live in the COA.
So, for all of the great things you would like to see happen the COA leadership has to first engage the other 90% because the non COA residents don't need the COA but the COA needs the suburbanites. They need their votes and they need their money. Otherwise we will just continue talking about dream projects that have no money and no support outside of the COA.
Check out how Seattle's transit plan includes a lot of rail outside the city of Seattle. Notice how there is rail being constructed to Bellevue and beyond, and how the new development is clustered around those new stations. Notice the nasty fight between rural Washington and Seattle about transit funding, but also notice that all of metro Seattle wants transit.
To keep it on topic I don’t expect GA to be at the bleeding edge of labor law. But individual companies often keep consistent policies across all states, meaning that an Atlanta location would be the same as CA or NY. In that case they’d be required to honor it if it’s their stated policy. Obviously UxS doesn’t follow that.
You are correct that there are no federal break laws in the workplace. I had to look it up myself to believe it. However, I have never worked, nor do I know anyone in certain states to have worked at a place that did not give a meal break for an 8-hour shift. There might be no federal laws but certain states have language or actual laws against having workers complete such a long shift without a meal break. These states might have a much stronger union presence.
You are correct that some companies have consistent policies in all states but there are also those who seek out states like GA so that they can abuse their workers...anything to save money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1
I had a discussion on another forum with a guy a few years ago on this topic. He apparently ran a business and forbid his employees to take any sort of meal break. He expected them at their desk for the full day. When asked why he had such policies, figuring that it must have been critical work, his response was simply "I didn't have to allow them by law and I wasn't running a charity". I am so glad I don't have to work for people like that. And if any of you do, I really feel for you.
This is so selfish and would even say behavior typical of a psychopath.
The city of Atlanta is roughly 10% of metro Atlanta. Put another way, 90% of metro Atlanta has decided to not live in the COA.
So, for all of the great things you would like to see happen the COA leadership has to first engage the other 90% because the non COA residents don't need the COA but the COA needs the suburbanites. They need their votes and they need their money. Otherwise we will just continue talking about dream projects that have no money and no support outside of the COA.
Check out how Seattle's transit plan includes a lot of rail outside the city of Seattle. Notice how there is rail being constructed to Bellevue and beyond, and how the new development is clustered around those new stations. Notice the nasty fight between rural Washington and Seattle about transit funding, but also notice that all of metro Seattle wants transit.
A big difference is the Seattle metropolitan area is just 3 counties, and one of those is Seattle's King County. And Pierce County is Tacoma which is large highly developed city of its own, and Snohomish County with a border just a couple miles from city limits of Seattle, and also quite urban-developed with Everett.
There are a lot of MARTA and rail supporters in Cobb and Gwinnett, like hundreds of thousands. But they have no real voice or ability to do anything about it, because of the conservative half of those counties.
What Atlanta needs to be able to do, is have MARTA operate and be funded in the specific areas that support it. Forget the county lines, just figure out which zip codes of the metro majority want it, and draw a big map area that way and have the sales tax be collected in those areas and serve those areas and not elsewhere.
Or just let South Cobb and Cumberland, and South Gwinnett and Norcross vote to join MARTA on their own.
My point being, there is most definitely a ton of support for a progressive transit vision outside City of Atlanta, and outside of Fulton and DeKalb and Clayton. But the rules and county lines screw them over.
A big difference is the Seattle metropolitan area is just 3 counties, and one of those is Seattle's King County. And Pierce County is Tacoma which is large highly developed city of its own, and Snohomish County with a border just a couple miles from city limits of Seattle, and also quite urban-developed with Everett.
There are a lot of MARTA and rail supporters in Cobb and Gwinnett, like hundreds of thousands. But they have no real voice or ability to do anything about it, because of the conservative half of those counties.
What Atlanta needs to be able to do, is have MARTA operate and be funded in the specific areas that support it. Forget the county lines, just figure out which zip codes of the metro majority want it, and draw a big map area that way and have the sales tax be collected in those areas and serve those areas and not elsewhere.
Or just let South Cobb and Cumberland, and South Gwinnett and Norcross vote to join MARTA on their own.
My point being, there is most definitely a ton of support for a progressive transit vision outside City of Atlanta, and outside of Fulton and DeKalb and Clayton. But the rules and county lines screw them over.
The county-line issue is also hogwosh. DFW is divided into just as many counties but was able to effectively expand transit beyond the borders of Dallas County. The same applies for Chicago, even D.C. (both of which managed to provide transit to not only neighboring counties but also two neighboring states.) The real issue is the political opposition, racial tension, and the State doing nothing about it in the terms of stepping in and overriding political preferences over much needed transit improvements to keep their electoral group happy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1
I'd really love to see their data. This would assume that many people make far less than $42,000 since so many make far above that. I don't know of many who make less than $42,000 unless they are part-time PAs. But I know many, many who make a lot more than that.
And that thread is from 2013, well before things started really getting big around here. There is still not much "above the line" action here though. But, that's a small portion of the workers on a project. That's like claiming that having a large business office opening in midtown is pointless because the CEO doesn't live here.
You guys should really ask the people who actually work in the industry. First of all, the film industry is largely union. There are some non-union productions out there, but absolutely no legitimate, real production is running non-union. And, let me assure you that the contracts do not allow them to run ridiculous schedules or ridiculous policies without extra pay. The union standards agreement which covers most employees is over 100 pages long and includes all the rules about working hours, holidays, meals, rest periods, per diem, benefits, travel, and everything else. I'm not going to link to it, but you can find it online. Keep in mind that any wages in that document are minimums. Few make the minimum.
Disclaimer: I am in a more skilled position than many, so my rate is higher. But, I am somewhere in the upper-middle of pay range as far as crew goes. Most working people by mid-November have worked approximately 215 days (45th week * 5 days - some days off). I have worked only 178 days so far this year, nearly 40 days fewer than most. I have already surpassed a six-figure income this year, not including meal penalties, per diem, tool pay, mileage, and other costs. Just labor. I also have health insurance fully paid for, retirement accounts paid into, and other benefits. Even those who are making half of what I make are still coming in well over $50k. On top of all this, almost all of my meals are provided with at least two fully-catered meals per day, two smaller prepared meals per day, and and endless selection of drinks and snacks. Oh, and then I rent equipment to productions for a whole lot more.
The lowest rate a basic union crew member can make on most standard productions is in the upper $20s per hour. Most make in the low to mid $30s. And the bigger the budget, the higher that number can get. Yes..there are low-budget productions which pay lower.
Are most film crew people rolling in Bentleys and eating only at Empire State South and Bacchanalia? No. Of course not. But to insinuate that the film industry is proliferated largely by a bunch of low-income people scraping by while working in sweatshop like conditions under whip-cracking producers is largely unfounded. At least, I've seen very little of that.
Now, sure...PAs, stand-ins, and general office workers are not making those rates. But most of your crew are doing quite alright.
Does that also include fillers? I know plenty of them that made somewhere in the ball park of $15 - $25 hourly.
Last edited by Need4Camaro; 11-10-2019 at 07:34 AM..
There are a lot of MARTA and rail supporters in Cobb and Gwinnett, like hundreds of thousands.
What Atlanta needs to be able to do, is have MARTA operate and be funded in the specific areas that support it. Forget the county lines, just figure out which zip codes of the metro majority want it, and draw a big map area that way and have the sales tax be collected in those areas and serve those areas and not elsewhere.
Or just let South Cobb and Cumberland, and South Gwinnett and Norcross vote to join MARTA on their own.
My point being, there is most definitely a ton of support for a progressive transit vision outside City of Atlanta, and outside of Fulton and DeKalb and Clayton. But the rules and county lines screw them over.
90% of metro Atlanta isn't buying what MARTA is selling. To expand transit options there has to be a proposal that isn't COA-centric or cherry picking small areas that won't generate enough tax revenue for anything but buses.
Metro Atlanta doesn't want transit to take them to midtown. They want transit to take them to Windward, Cumberland, and the airport.
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