New development in Atlanta- too "course-grained"? (2015, rental)

[bryantm3]

I have been noticing this development pattern for a few years especially intown, but found an article that described what I'm seeing very well- "course grained" versus "fine grained" development.

Granularity -Andrew Alexander Price

We can also talk about the granularity of an economy - an economy can be fine-grained if it is made up of many small businesses, coarse-grained if it is made up of few large businesses, and anywhere in between. Having a fine-grained economy made up of many small businesses is generally preferable over a coarse-grained economy made up of fewer businesses because it implies a more resilient economy (if one of the businesses fail, less is the effect on the overall economy) and more distributed wealth (the profit and ownership of the businesses are divided among many, rather than in the hands of a few.)

Cities are the physical manifestation of the economy, and our built environment speaks volumes about our economy. It is easier to see this in smaller towns where the economic model is simplified - you can easily spot the difference between a small town dominated by a few large stores and a small town dominated by many smaller stores. There is often a correlation between our built environment that we physically see and interact with, and the underlying economics that built it.

Midtown north of 10th has seen a lot of growth in the last 10 years, but is it the kind of growth that people were looking for? Much of the area up there feels like a super-sized corporate campus- lots of offices, restaurants for office workers, and now some residential (in the price range of white-collar office workers).

Is this kind of one-dimensional growth durable enough to sustain midtown going forward as a neighborhood even against the tide of COVID and increased work-from-home? Is there enough in Midtown to keep people coming back?

I think the large amassed lots in midtown (not original to the neighborhood, might I add) are creating these "megaparcels" that are competive with suburban developments, office parks and malls.

It seems like, instead of a more urban area, where there is a lot of bottom up growth and room for experimentation, midtown seems to be going in the direction of the vertical suburb- big names owning the land in big pieces, zoning very strict, etc. Maybe we need to slow up a little so we can see the true impact of this "coarse-grained" development without blinders... is this really what we want, or are we in just such a hurry to "become world class" that we're getting ahead of ourselves?

[AtlJan]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

I have been noticing this development pattern for a few years especially intown, but found an article that described what I'm seeing very well- "course grained" versus "fine grained" development.

Granularity -Andrew Alexander Price



Midtown north of 10th has seen a lot of growth in the last 10 years, but is it the kind of growth that people were looking for? Much of the area up there feels like a super-sized corporate campus- lots of offices, restaurants for office workers, and now some residential (in the price range of white-collar office workers).

Is this kind of one-dimensional growth durable enough to sustain midtown going forward as a neighborhood even against the tide of COVID and increased work-from-home? Is there enough in Midtown to keep people coming back?

I think the large amassed lots in midtown (not original to the neighborhood, might I add) are creating these "megaparcels" that are competive with suburban developments, office parks and malls.

It seems like, instead of a more urban area, where there is a lot of bottom up growth and room for experimentation, midtown seems to be going in the direction of the vertical suburb- big names owning the land in big pieces, zoning very strict, etc. Maybe we need to slow up a little so we can see the true impact of this "coarse-grained" development without blinders... is this really what we want, or are we in just such a hurry to "become world class" that we're getting ahead of ourselves?

Midtown was largely small businesses prior to about 1980. As the desirability of the area increased, and prices increased, it became more corporatey. It's a development pattern that is fairly universal. Neighborhoods change. Now you can find those kinds of small businesses in EAV or wherever the latest hotspot is.

[Mutiny77]

Land prices in urban areas with high demand and current zoning/parking regulations aren't conducive for building more fine-grained development if we're talking about smaller commercial spaces being built individually. And many of the smaller commercial spaces in Midtown are limited to one-story structures that don't represent the highest use of the land. It would be great if there could be more of the so-called "missing middle" midrise commercial/residential structures built on some of these parcels but developers are out to maximize profits and unless height limits are going to be enacted, you're not going to see them in the core of Midtown but its possible that some may pop up where the commercial core begins giving way to traditional residential neighborhoods right outside of it.

[cwkimbro]

I enjoyed the read.

I think the problem is there is more efficiencies of scale in building larger developments from scratch and larger buildings, whether its a strip mall in the suburbs or a 5 story wood condo building gentrification-ville. It can also get more units per acre and sometimes with more square feet.

For better or worse it brings changes faster and cheaper and can create higher impacts on limited land.

This is also indicative of our model to only allowing high-impact changes on previous large commercial and industrial plots and business districts where land values run high.

However, there are some forms of 'fine grain' development in the past. An example are the small condo buildings built in the Virginia Highlands area on what use to be 1 or 2 single family homes in the past. It also happens as people replace single homes or build a small row of townhomes on an old residential plot.

If we want to encourage dense fine grained development, we have to let it happen naturally on areas where small plots exist. When a building has a large plot, it will be more efficient to build a large building/complex/neighborhood seeking efficiencies in per unit costs. If a builder has a small plot, but can replace 1 house with 6 units where those 6 units are greater in value in the original house, it will encourage more redevelopment on a small scale. We do have this sometimes. It usually manifests in a small row of 4 or 5 townhomes that are identical.

The problem is we are protecting most areas that have small plots of land. We have single family homes, rebuilt single family homes, and single family homes built on narrow single-family vacant lots. If we had more zoning that allowed the fringe or central streets of of single family home neighorhoods to become denser on existing smaller residential lots, developers would likely pursue many smaller projects over time. However, for the time being we are curbing our developments mostly onto larger brownfield sites from aged commercial and industrial properties.

I do think similar fine grained commercial development is possible, however I think the residential density has to pick up first. The smaller commercial redevelopment would likely have to survive without parking and without being small and cheaper as a rental space in a larger coarse grained building. It becomes possible when the building already exists and the capitol cost of building new doesn't get in the way. I think that is why people like EAV, Virginia Ave, Edgewood, etc...

Also, don't forget fine grained development can take time. It happens 1 or 2 buildings at a time and it might be decades before the place next door does the same.

[seussie]

I can see this happening on the south side (east and west) and some on the empty commercial spaces on the westside.

[ddm2k]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

I have been noticing this development pattern for a few years especially intown, but found an article that described what I'm seeing very well- "course grained" versus "fine grained" development.

Granularity -Andrew Alexander Price



Midtown north of 10th has seen a lot of growth in the last 10 years, but is it the kind of growth that people were looking for? Much of the area up there feels like a super-sized corporate campus- lots of offices, restaurants for office workers, and now some residential (in the price range of white-collar office workers).

Is this kind of one-dimensional growth durable enough to sustain midtown going forward as a neighborhood even against the tide of COVID and increased work-from-home? Is there enough in Midtown to keep people coming back?

I think the large amassed lots in midtown (not original to the neighborhood, might I add) are creating these "megaparcels" that are competive with suburban developments, office parks and malls.

It seems like, instead of a more urban area, where there is a lot of bottom up growth and room for experimentation, midtown seems to be going in the direction of the vertical suburb- big names owning the land in big pieces, zoning very strict, etc. Maybe we need to slow up a little so we can see the true impact of this "coarse-grained" development without blinders... is this really what we want, or are we in just such a hurry to "become world class" that we're getting ahead of ourselves?

The ultimate "coarse grained" example from which to abstain would be ... a mill town?

[bu2]

I imagine Atlanta's bureaucracy is a factor. I noticed it when I first moved here a decade ago. Few small businesses. Most things were chains. The local businesses were large local chains.

When Mayor Reed was first elected I remember reading that a permit that took 5 weeks in Cobb Country took 42 weeks in Atlanta. Only those with deep pockets can afford such delays.

And only those with connections can get the tax subsidies that Atlanta (and some of the suburbs) often gives to developers.

[architect77]

Peachtree Street North of 10th St. is deliberately trying to be Altanta's Magnificent Mile like in Chicago.

Around Colony Square that area is probably one of America's most attractive places for people to go to work as far as corporate environments go.

It's big city stature without any urban blight just like the Perimeter area has become.

Just cherish it, and let's keep some trees in Midtown by planting more anywhere possible.

[architect77]

It's not socially responsible today to build small on land at a city's core.

The past had a different set of conditions and SFHs on large lots are fine to remain, but they're grandfathered anomalies.

10th and Peachtree used to be an open trash dump just 40 years ago.. Peachtree was lined with shabby 1-4 story businesses as recently as the 90s.

[architect77]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

I have been noticing this development pattern for a few years especially intown, but found an article that described what I'm seeing very well- "course grained" versus "fine grained" development.

Granularity -Andrew Alexander Price



Midtown north of 10th has seen a lot of growth in the last 10 years, but is it the kind of growth that people were looking for? Much of the area up there feels like a super-sized corporate campus- lots of offices, restaurants for office workers, and now some residential (in the price range of white-collar office workers).

Is this kind of one-dimensional growth durable enough to sustain midtown going forward as a neighborhood even against the tide of COVID and increased work-from-home? Is there enough in Midtown to keep people coming back?

I think the large amassed lots in midtown (not original to the neighborhood, might I add) are creating these "megaparcels" that are competive with suburban developments, office parks and malls.

It seems like, instead of a more urban area, where there is a lot of bottom up growth and room for experimentation, midtown seems to be going in the direction of the vertical suburb- big names owning the land in big pieces, zoning very strict, etc. Maybe we need to slow up a little so we can see the true impact of this "coarse-grained" development without blinders... is this really what we want, or are we in just such a hurry to "become world class" that we're getting ahead of ourselves?

From areas like this comes innovation from smart minds and talent congregated into one area.

That's why NYC has always been home to the biggest companies.

That area with the High museum and eateries and office towers is beautiful and one of a kind.