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Easy, easy...I'm not interested in the physical attractiveness of the population, but rather other quality of life factors that will help us decide. For example, the two folks pointing out the difference in the impact of the different taxes based and income and/or spending is great info!
With everything that's gone on there (fires, heat drought) considered against positives like employment and housing stability, nice geography, vibrant city...makes it a tough decision. We are beginning the "latter third" of our lives meaning we have 12-15 more years of working, then retirement (and we don't want to move again for retirement as our house will be paid off by then), so we feel there is a lot weighing on making as informed a decision as we can. The place we choose will have to meet our needs in pre and post-retirement. It's always beneficial to get the "real deal facts" (good bad and ugly) from those who've been there.
So, for those who have lived there for some time, are you feeling any driving pressure to leave based on non-personal factors related just to life in Austin? If not, again, what are the non-personal factors that make you want to stay (don't say job, family - those are personal).
PS - in case anyone is interested, Charlotte is the other potential destination.
We have about 20 years to retirement, at least (we long ago discount SS out of the equation ), and we have no intention at this time of leaving. It is hard to separate personal from non-personal, like schools - we have kids at early school-age, and we feel that the schools we get for our taxes (property, mainly) are excellent. That is kind of a money decision. Tax-wise, we are a dual income/modest house, so property tax vs. income tax is good for us; once we retire, that would be another thing to look at, but it will probably not be a driving factor in a decision to move/not move.
Not sure exactly what you mean by 'non-personal' as I think about it - you list jobs, but the availability of jobs is kind of an absolute issue at some point.
We like the climate (prefer hot over cold any day, but that is personal);
We are okay with the cost of living (not high, but not low); and
We have jobs that pay good money.
There isn't anything that needs (or can be) 'fixed' by moving, so we are not moving any time soon....
What I meant by non-personal was factors outside your own control (weather, economy) vs listing specifics about your personal life that keep you there (which I acknowledge but wouldn't apply to us)
I'm happy that Austin has peaked in terms of attraction. we jumped from 250k to almost 600k in less than 10 years. Now we have those who are deciding to stay or go and that number should level out around 550K by 2013. that's plenty.
Wait, what? If you're talking population you sure do have some goofy numbers.
So, for those who have lived there for some time, are you feeling any driving pressure to leave based on non-personal factors related just to life in Austin? If not, again, what are the non-personal factors that make you want to stay (don't say job, family - those are personal).
PS - in case anyone is interested, Charlotte is the other potential destination.
Well, personal factors are probably the top factor that outweigh all others. The other things are secondary to most people. I think the only way that I see myself retiring in the Austin area is if my kids still live here. If they move away then I'll either move to where they live or to a place where I can live a more active retired lifestyle like San Diego. When retired, I plan to spend very little time at home and would be happy with a modest condo in a place with more activites even if it has a higher cost of housing.
Currently, I wouldn't even think about leaving the Austin area because it's a great place to raise a family, despite the heat in the summer. However, if I wasn't working 40 to 45 hours a week and taking care of the kids when not at work, I'm not sure that I would have enough nearby activities within the Austin area to keep myself occupied all day when retired. Again, unless my kids/grandkids were in the area as that would change everything.
With that said, I think it's impossible to analyze what you define as non-personal factors when they are the most important to most people.
1. All the attention has already started a tsunami of boomers opting to retire there - so much so it has been covered on the national news as the new "in" retirement location. Not to mention all the "best places to live" lists. Is Austin likely to experience such an influx so as to suffer the same problems as most cities that are highlighted in this manner? Traffic is already mentioned frequently as a big problem - a huge influx of new people will only (logically) make it much worse. There is a lot of bad stuff that comes with a "herd" mentality. There are a lot of people who rue the days when Seattle got so much attention a few decades ago - they say it ruined the place in the years to come.
My wife and I have lived in Austin for 34 years, after having previously lived in Wyoming, Kansas, Pheonix, Los Angeles & Denver. We like Texas and especially Austin far more then all of those places. I do like the Austin we moved to in 1977 better then the Austin we live in today, but we still have no desire to move. We are retiring here now and consider it a great place to live. There are more people making the same retirement decisions but this area is still hardly overwhelmed with retirees. We feel comfortable and safe almost anywhere in town, with people of all ages, and have no shortage of friends our age to socialize with.
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2. If you really look at it, much of the positive commentary about Austin seems to be targeted and directed toward younger people. The whole "live music capitol" thing is one example -look a bit closer and it seems it's mostly talking about the prevalence of college bars - not the stuff that appeals to 45+ people (our ages). So basically, if you're not single and/or under 30, is much of the hype irrelevant?
A lot of the hype is irrelevant to us. We participate in the events that we are interested in, occasionally enjoying a dinner out and a show downtown and ignoring the rest. There are plenty of things we can do to enjoy life here, especially the outdoors. Which we greatly enjoy over spending time in crowded, noisy, hot concerts and festivals.
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3. The benefits of a college town are apparent, but that aside, does it also mean there is a glut of UT grads who clog the job market and prevent those same 45+ people from getting decent jobs? The employment numbers are impressive, but not if they are mostly lower-paying (< $60K entry level jobs).
Actually as I grew older living here I found that adults with more experience had an advantage over all the younger folks with very little experience. However pay is significantly lower. Your not going to find many $60K entry level jobs. The median family income is around $50k. http://www.city-data.com/income/inco...tin-Texas.html
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4. No state income tax...no state income tax....no state income tax...got it. However, property and sales taxes are high, and energy costs are high too, noteworthy for an area where you need AC running many months. For those who have lived elsewhere, is the absence of state income tax all that meaningful when you factor in these other costs?
Property and sales tax pretty much balance out no income tax in my opinion, but I have not done the math. High summer AC costs are in excess of that. Add to that high water costs if you try to maintain a lush landscape. But if you want to live anywhere in the US that has a mild winter you pretty much going to have to expect those high summer AC costs. Most other places in the US with mild winters are severe deserts, compared to those Austin is green and lush most years, this year being an exception. I love not having to commute on icy snowy roads like we did up north. To some degree those high summer AC costs are offset by low winter heating costs. My utility bills last for the last 12 months have totaled Elec. $1,427, Water $988, Gas $477, for a 2300 SF house for two adults. I know people who use much less water and I'm working on reducing that, plus I added insulation to the attic a couple of months ago and am looking forward to seeing those costs reduced.
Easy, easy...I'm not interested in the physical attractiveness of the population, but rather other quality of life factors that will help us decide. For example, the two folks pointing out the difference in the impact of the different taxes based and income and/or spending is great info!
With everything that's gone on there (fires, heat drought) considered against positives like employment and housing stability, nice geography, vibrant city...makes it a tough decision. We are beginning the "latter third" of our lives meaning we have 12-15 more years of working, then retirement (and we don't want to move again for retirement as our house will be paid off by then), so we feel there is a lot weighing on making as informed a decision as we can. The place we choose will have to meet our needs in pre and post-retirement. It's always beneficial to get the "real deal facts" (good bad and ugly) from those who've been there.
So, for those who have lived there for some time, are you feeling any driving pressure to leave based on non-personal factors related just to life in Austin? If not, again, what are the non-personal factors that make you want to stay (don't say job, family - those are personal).
PS - in case anyone is interested, Charlotte is the other potential destination.
We are approaching retirement age and we will NOT retire in Austin. Forgive the length, but these are some random things that we encountered. This information is anecdotal, of course, but without rose-colored glasses.
We are from Chicago and were surprised to find the COL the same and in some respects higher in Austin. Property taxes are just high in Austin even with no state income tax- yet - (everything and everyone here for the most part compares to the coasts...California in particular...so IMO that skews the comparisons...). Again, property taxes are high. Our property taxes are higher in Austin than our combined state/property taxes in IL. Austin sales tax is high - around 8.25%. I found beer is higher...I could actually buy Shiner cheaper in IL than TX! Gas is low...but you have to drive...everywhere. Grocery prices the same...not much competition in that area. No tax on food.
Someone suggests not living in a mansion...housing is cheap in TX and great for entry level...however, housing is also cheap in construction and you get what you pay for. The bar is set kinda low here. When we looked for a house...the so called "desirable" areas...looked a little dumpy to us. So, if you want to live in a "hot" area or in a bit nicer area, the price goes up and does the property tax (of which the city had just increased).
The heat,hail (had to replace the roof on a 10 yr old house), the drought and the fires. 84 days and counting of 100+ degree heat. The drought...water is going to become an issue as Austin continues go grow...with no real growth plan (the city council (in)actions tend to slide into group think). The fires of recent have been devastating. Fire departments are now asking for donations because state budgets have been slashed and the equipment is in dire need of repair.
If you live in the burbs you gotta have an evac plan in case of wildfires. I am very glad our house does not back up to a green belt (more bugs, spiders, snakes, animals and now fire threat). I'm glad we didn't buy acreage because of fire threat. I'm glad we didn't buy into a community with only one exit out.
Utilities are high (and just announced an increase). Electricity rates are high and that ac runs constantly from April til Oct-Nov (and there is no apples to apples comparison with winter climes as a native will undoubtedly claim..as ac is powered by electric and heat usually by gas up north). In Austin, water rates-high. The rates per kw/gal increase per increased usage. "Conservation" means increasing rates so people can't afford to use as much. On top of the high rates, your provider adds fees and charges on everything. Also, utilities are de-regulated here. You have to mindful of your MUD, PUD and if you are beholden to a single provider (who can charge whatever they damn well please). Make sure you know where your water comes from.
HOAs (home owner associations) are common. An HOA will insist on keeping your lawn green, during this extreme drought; or not allowing you to cut back brush to protect your home from fire. HOAs will charge you a monthy fee for that privilege.
Job growth is not as advertised. There is growth. It's big news when a company brings in 1000 jobs...however that's a promise to bring in 1000 jobs OVER TEN years. Companies are coming to Austin as business is being wooed to come to TX, but IMO these are satellite offices that can just as easily be shut down as the "Austin gold rush" tarnishes.
Vibrant city...depends on where you're coming from. The music scene is big...but IMO more "bar music" than not. Restaurants are not that great here (remember, we're from Chicago) and "culture" is meager. A great support of independently owned business. For me, Austin is like an over-eager little brother desperate to prove that they are just as sophisticated as anyone else.
As far as the people...people are very friendly. However and in a professional setting on a few occasions, I was referred to as "yankee". The "rugged Texas individual" is a myth IMO...people here tend to follow the herd, somewhat naive and very very mindful of the police. Texas is in not in that great financial shape and services are being slashed and unfortunately that means education, first responders and health services (for the poorest among us) get cut first (even when those services are more cost effective).
Health care...many, many young doctors. The good...doctors are up to date on the latest medical advances. The bad...I don't know if they are ordering procedures based actual need or the student loans and new office equipment that needs to be paid off. In particular, our vet bills and dental bills have been much higher than our (very established) doctor bills in IL.
Services...it's getting a bit better, but a lot of businesses are typically open 9-5, Monday thru Friday! Few Saturday hours - even for auto mechanics and such !We tried to buy a rug pad from a store - only open 'til 5:30 M-F. You have to take off work to go to the vet or doctor or to buy carpet or service the car (especially if you prefer to give your business to locals instead of chains)! Again, it's getting better with more services providing evening and Saturdays.
Also, when asked where I am from (and I'm a firm believer in NOT disparaging a person's home, state, city..) a native will add "well, you must like it here more" or "I can't stand cold weather". A person(my doctor!) actually said "EWWW...I hate Chicago". Or just....plain...silence. Never "oh, I've never been...or I'd like to visit one day".
I was really looking forward to moving to Austin. I thought the hill country beautiful. I thought I'd garden all year round (everything is dead crisp now). The hot seeming endless hot weather is taking it's toll. Plus, I hate sweating all the time. I can't run in the afternoon and I'm tired of hearing that I can do it before 9am or after 8pm 'tho.
When the job's over....I'm outta here. Austin is just not for everyone. And now the flaming is going to start (another indication of the mind set here-a few weeks ago, someone flamed me for mentioning grass fires to another person contemplating Austin). This is my 2 cents.
Last edited by kbchitown; 09-14-2011 at 11:43 AM..
Easy, easy...I'm not interested in the physical attractiveness of the population, but rather other quality of life factors that will help us decide. For example, the two folks pointing out the difference in the impact of the different taxes based and income and/or spending is great info!
With everything that's gone on there (fires, heat drought) considered against positives like employment and housing stability, nice geography, vibrant city...makes it a tough decision. We are beginning the "latter third" of our lives meaning we have 12-15 more years of working, then retirement (and we don't want to move again for retirement as our house will be paid off by then), so we feel there is a lot weighing on making as informed a decision as we can. The place we choose will have to meet our needs in pre and post-retirement. It's always beneficial to get the "real deal facts" (good bad and ugly) from those who've been there.
So, for those who have lived there for some time, are you feeling any driving pressure to leave based on non-personal factors related just to life in Austin? If not, again, what are the non-personal factors that make you want to stay (don't say job, family - those are personal).
PS - in case anyone is interested, Charlotte is the other potential destination.
Allergies are really bad here. If you get them you will be miserable, we are the allergy capital of the country too.
Austin has a pretty intellectual and educated community compared to the rest of the country.
Austin has great schools and many family oriented communities.
Austin has a lot of great 3* restaurants but almost no 4* and definitely no 5*
The live music scene here is big, but Im not entirely sure about the quality of a lot of it. It isnt like bands here are getting signed left and right. Im not that into it, but it isnt clear to me that the local music is very good.
Austin is more like a small city. We have extremely good amenities for a small city, but simply cannot compare to a tier 1 city. Not sure how we compare to charlotte.
I would move probably only to the bay area for the following reasons:
1) While austin has great high tech for a city its size, it is still a backwater compared to silicon valley.
2) My wife has bad allergies
3) Bay area is a lot more intellectual, although austin is great
4) Bay area is on the ocean for all sorts of great water sports
the cons of the bay area are that we would want to have 4-5 million in liquid assets to feel like we could afford to live there.
1. All the attention has already started a tsunami of boomers opting to retire there - so much so it has been covered on the national news as the new "in" retirement location.
Is there data to back this up? I haven't seen any evidence of it besides the construction of a new Golden Corral on Parmer Lane. If any sort of people flood has come to Austin in the last decade, it was a tsunami of 20s/30s hipsters coming in from both coasts.
My personal plan is to be nowhere near Austin when I retire. The above poster's suggestion of San Diego is more my speed. I can't really tolerate the summer weather for four+ months as it is, so I can't imagine wanting to pursue outdoor activities when I'm 65+ in this heat.
If I was choosing Austin vs Charlotte for retirement, I'd probably pick Charlotte just based on weather and the ability to easily drive to the beautiful Carolina coastline one way and mountains the other.
Also, when asked where I am from (and I'm a firm believer in NOT disparaging a person's home, state, city..) a native will add "well, you must like it here more" or "I can't stand cold weather". A person(my doctor!) actually said "EWWW...I hate Chicago". Or just....plain...silence. Never "oh, I've never been...or I'd like to visit one day".
I get this too and hate it.
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), and we have no intention at this time of leaving. It is hard to separate personal from non-personal, like schools - we have kids at early school-age, and we feel that the schools we get for our taxes (property, mainly) are excellent. That is kind of a money decision. Tax-wise, we are a dual income/modest house, so property tax vs. income tax is good for us; once we retire, that would be another thing to look at, but it will probably not be a driving factor in a decision to move/not move.
