Austin has three of the ten most walkable neighborhoods in the state of Texas (Round Rock: condos, mattress)

[austin-steve]

Originally Posted by Novacek

But again, you seem to be missing the definition/point of walkability.

It's not just making that trip once. Walkability is where walking can replace most/many/multiple trips.

So it's not just doing that trip once a week. Or even once a day. It's walking that distance multiple times.

Run and get coffee in the morning.
Go to dinner.
Then go to drinks.
Or Go to a movie.
Run by the shop for a carton of milk.

So yes, if you're actually walking 16 miles/4 hours a day, congratulations.

Uh, I don't think most would agree with your definition of walkability. I guess it's a subjective term though.

Wikipedia takes a stab at it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walkability

[Trainwreck20]

Originally Posted by Novacek

But again, you seem to be missing the definition/point of walkability.

It's not just making that trip once. Walkability is where walking can replace most/many/multiple trips.

So it's not just doing that trip once a week. Or even once a day. It's walking that distance multiple times.

Run and get coffee in the morning.
Go to dinner.
Then go to drinks.
Or Go to a movie.
Run by the shop for a carton of milk.



So yes, if you're actually walking 16 miles/4 hours a day, congratulations.

Well, I can do all that from my house while walking less than a mile round-trip total, with the exception of the theater, which is probably about a 1.8 mile round-trip by itself. I suspect Steve can, as well, but not sure exactly where he lives. Now, if I wanted to go to the coffee shop further from the theater, then go to the theater, that would get a bit longer. But I could chose to go to the one by the theater instead, ofc.

I am limited to one of seven or eight restaurants, so I suppose that is 'bad' by walk score standards?

How many places with high walk scores can walk their dog down to the vet, though? We haven't yet, but could walk to the dentist, or the doctor is we changed our GPs to the new ADC location. Walking to the Dr. doesn't seem like it would usually be reasonable, though .

There are two hair 'places' within that 1/2 mile, although my wife's got pricey enough that she goes elsewhere now. I still walk to the 'economy' shop unless I stop on my way home and am in my car anyway...

We kept our jogging stroller from when the kids were small and now walk it down to HEB (the kids ride scooters now) and leave it and the scooters outside while we shop. Then use the stroller to roll the goods back home. Allows us to do somewhat major shopping without having to shoulder a bunch of bags. And maybe I am being paranoid, but not sure my stroller/scooters would remain outside Whole Foods if we left them there for the duration of a shopping trip.

If 1/2 mile is 'as good' for someone as a 1/4 mile, the WS results would change dramatically, I think.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by austin-steve

Uh, I don't think most would agree with your definition of walkability. I guess it's a subjective term though.

Wikipedia takes a stab at it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walkability

Uh, wikipedia agrees with me. Low density SFH a mile away from anything isn't walkable by any of the definitions it offers.

"Land use mix"
"Residential density"
"Plenty of places to go to near the majority of homes"
"locally-serving commercial amenities"


What do you think the point of all that is? To have a bunch of stuff near, and then _not_ walk to it?

The point is to have a bunch of stuff near, so that you can walk to most/all of the things you do. Not just out to a restaurant once a week.

[pop251808]

Another characteristic of a pleasant urban walking experience is having interesting stuff along the way to look at. Austin falls down hard by that measure. I find that I often won't walk because walking through long, empty streets in residential neighborhoods or out along a street set up for motorists' convenience is dull. That fact ranks right up there with beastly heat as a reason why walking in much of Austin is a non-starter. Our zoning and land use codes must have been developed by people with some sort of OCD, wanting everything to be just like its neighbor, and "nothing touching each other."

[austin-steve]

Originally Posted by Novacek

Uh, wikipedia agrees with me. Low density SFH a mile away from anything isn't walkable by any of the definitions it offers.

"Land use mix"
"Residential density"
"Plenty of places to go to near the majority of homes"
"locally-serving commercial amenities"


What do you think the point of all that is? To have a bunch of stuff near, and then _not_ walk to it?

The point is to have a bunch of stuff near, so that you can walk to most/all of the things you do. Not just out to a restaurant once a week.

I said Wikipedia took a stab it it, not that it got it 100% right.

I think we agree more than it seems though. My main point is that "walkability" is a personal thing whereas walkscore tries to make it universal "one size fits all".

I would appreciate, were I to relocate to another city, being able to see walk scores that fit my particular wants, interests and distance capabilities. For example, I'd give "Bar" zero points since I don't drink, but would give "Great Clips" and "Starbucks" points since I like to walk there for my haircuts then read the newspaper with a cup of coffee afterward. Wouldn't that make it better?

[10scoachrick]

Life would be SO simple if people didn't have to drink coffee

I'm glad I missed that gene.

[Trainwreck20]

Originally Posted by pop251808

Another characteristic of a pleasant urban walking experience is having interesting stuff along the way to look at. Austin falls down hard by that measure. I find that I often won't walk because walking through long, empty streets in residential neighborhoods or out along a street set up for motorists' convenience is dull. That fact ranks right up there with beastly heat as a reason why walking in much of Austin is a non-starter. Our zoning and land use codes must have been developed by people with some sort of OCD, wanting everything to be just like its neighbor, and "nothing touching each other."

Ambiance, maybe. This is probably a neglected component of walk scores, but I suspect it plays heavily into peoples perception of walkable, maybe more than distance to random shops/stores. I liked walking in the north campus area (oh-so-many years ago) and looking at the interesting (albeit dilapidated) houses. My walking was mainly to the UT shuttle bus stop, not to any retail or grocery, but it was somewhat interesting while still being quiet. So it was pleasant walking, but not really 'walkable' if you mean running errands and such.

Dull is a personal perspective, of course. I don't find the shops and stores (or the omnipresent office space) all the interesting downtown, certainly no more than the house in North Campus. I do find that people watching is a way to pass the time while walking downtown, but in anything approaching warm temperatures, the concrete heat and the buildings that may block wind make walking unpleasant more often than central or suburban neighborhoods. Also, outside of early morning hours on the weekend, the constant noise/smell/presence of cars is generally unpleasant.

The houses in our neighborhood are not all that interesting, but there are lots of people out and I end up talking to quite a few of them, especially on the weekend. It is a reason to go walking separate for 'errands'. The streets are pretty well shaded, the car traffic is minimal, and there are nice sidewalks. Even the busy road (Escarpment) is not that busy and is easy to cross at any intersection and there are controlled crossing points in several places.

[10scoachrick]

Hmmm...I guess our Avery Ranch neighborhood doesn't qualify...Within one-half mile we have :

Three banks, two large drug stores w/staple food items(no produce), three pizza restaurants(one take-out only), the other two locally owned; two 'nicer' restaurants, McDonalds, liquor store, bike shop, yogurt, realty company, daycare, dentist, eye doc, Urgent Care, chiro doc, day spa(2 or 3), Indian grocer, fitness center, tanning, two 'basic' hair salons, at least two upscale hair salons, physical therapy studio, snap kitchen-type place, BBQ, postal/package store, watch battery store and a large football stadium....and the list goes on. Must go another half mile for gourmet coffee and not an organic vegan used indie book store in sight(sorry). Movie theater?...I've been to ONE movie in seven years here, so I don't mind driving to that.

All of those can be accessed by wide sidewalks or bike lanes, controlled intersections with ped signals, and not a pothole to be found!

Gee, maybe the 'burbs ain't so bad after all.

[verybadgnome]

Originally Posted by 10scoachrick

Hmmm...I guess our Avery Ranch neighborhood doesn't qualify...Within one-half mile we have :

Three banks, two large drug stores w/staple food items(no produce), three pizza restaurants(one take-out only), the other two locally owned; two 'nicer' restaurants, McDonalds, liquor store, bike shop, yogurt, realty company, daycare, dentist, eye doc, Urgent Care, chiro doc, day spa(2 or 3), Indian grocer, fitness center, tanning, two 'basic' hair salons, at least two upscale hair salons, physical therapy studio, snap kitchen-type place, BBQ, postal/package store, watch battery store and a large football stadium....and the list goes on. Must go another half mile for gourmet coffee and not an organic vegan used indie book store in sight(sorry). Movie theater?...I've been to ONE movie in seven years here, so I don't mind driving to that.

All of those can be accessed by wide sidewalks or bike lanes, controlled intersections with ped signals, and not a pothole to be found!

Gee, maybe the 'burbs ain't so bad after all.

I checked out Parmer Ln and Avery Ranch Blvd intersection. One pedestrian in 10 years worth of photos (June 2013). Just because something is possible doesn't mean people will do it. I also think there is some conditioning going on here. That is if you have to drive every day to work it seems quite natural to drive for everything else.

https://www.google.com/maps/@30.4979...8i6656!6m1!1e1

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by 10scoachrick

Hmmm...I guess our Avery Ranch neighborhood doesn't qualify...Within one-half mile we have :

Three banks, two large drug stores w/staple food items(no produce), three pizza restaurants(one take-out only), the other two locally owned; two 'nicer' restaurants, McDonalds, liquor store, bike shop, yogurt, realty company, daycare, dentist, eye doc, Urgent Care, chiro doc, day spa(2 or 3), Indian grocer, fitness center, tanning, two 'basic' hair salons, at least two upscale hair salons, physical therapy studio, snap kitchen-type place, BBQ, postal/package store, watch battery store and a large football stadium....and the list goes on. Must go another half mile for gourmet coffee and not an organic vegan used indie book store in sight(sorry). Movie theater?...I've been to ONE movie in seven years here, so I don't mind driving to that.

All of those can be accessed by wide sidewalks or bike lanes, controlled intersections with ped signals, and not a pothole to be found!

Gee, maybe the 'burbs ain't so bad after all.

But what about the other 95% of Avery Ranch?

Those houses clustered right next to the commercial are that close, but everyone else is SOL.

Even with the stuff you listed, no one gets everything.

For an example, 1/2 mile walk from Brooklyn Heights Pizza.
Gets you to Avery club driver, and like the first couple houses off it, but that's it.
About another 10 or so off Terra Verde.
No one else east of parmer has it within 1/2 mile.

1/2 mile from the football stadium
Gets you about 10 houses west of parmer (and even those are townhomes).


So even for just those 2 destinations, about 20 houses (out of 4000) are within the 1/2 mile you claim.