How has the 10% law changed UT and Austin? (Houston, San Antonio: 2013, transfer)

[nomore07]

Not to mention, spillover to other schools in the region?
("UTSA denies admissions for first time in its history")

University of Texas Has 'Lost Control' of Admissions Policy - The Paper Trail (usnews.com)

UT’s 10 Percent Admissions Plan Causing Capacity Problems

U. Texas president speaks out against top 10 percent law | Article from University Wire | HighBeam Research

U. Texas admissions office struggles with top 10 percent rule | Article from University Wire | HighBeam Research

[hoffdano]

I don't think the 10% law has changed Austin in any measureable way.

I think its effects on minority enrollment have only been felt in the freshman class. Graduation rates have not moved materially after ten years. It has turned acceptance/admission into a numbers game for almost 90% of the freshmen. It doesn't matter whether a high school graduate is a great musician, math student, writer, debater, etc. unless they also graduate in the top 10%. There is almost no room for such students at UT without the top 10% ranking.

One thing that does matter is athletics. Run fast with a football and you'll get in if Mack wants you.

[CarnivalGal]

I don't think the 10% rule has changed Austin at all. I do think the rule will not be around much longer, however.

I think the concept looks good on paper, but doesn't really work as well as intended. There are students who have higher GPAs and SAT scores than some students admitted, but are not in the top 10% of their class, so they don't get in to UT.

60 Minutes did a good story on this a few years ago. They profiled a student from Westlake who had a 4.0 GPA, fantastic SAT scores, loads of extracurricular activites, etc., but did not get into UT because she was in the 11% of her graduating class. In contrast, they profiled a student from a low-performing HS in San Antonio who had a B average and mediocre SAT score, but she got into UT because she was in top 10%. The rule is simply not fair. It punishes kids for going to good schools.

Also an interesting tidbit - the freshman class at Texas State had a higher average SAT score than the freshman class at UT, largely because a lot of very bright, A students don't get into UT. But they go to Texas State because it is still close to Austin.

[Mdlx]

Ive heard the way things are going right now, by the time 2013 rolls around, UT will only be able to accept 10%ers. That is just wrong. Think about all the great international talent and transfers from other colleges that will be turned away.

Ironically, its times like these we could use some help from TAMU. Back when the law started, TAMU was a popular choice for high school seniors. I would say it was about evenly split with UT on the radar for top 10%ers. Since that time, UT has become more popular and TAMU less popular mostly because of their football programs(sadly). Now it seems more high school top 10% graduates choose UT over TAMU.

Something has to be done. I dont think what has been suggested in the past by UT is the right answer. Having a cap of 50% or any cap for top 10% admissions erases everything the law was trying to accomplish in the first place. Which top 10% do you admit and which to deny?

Maybe something like a top 5 6 or 7% rule?

[mwv]

Originally Posted by mm57553

I don't think the 10% rule has changed Austin at all. I do think the rule will not be around much longer, however.

I think the concept looks good on paper, but doesn't really work as well as intended. There are students who have higher GPAs and SAT scores than some students admitted, but are not in the top 10% of their class, so they don't get in to UT.

60 Minutes did a good story on this a few years ago. They profiled a student from Westlake who had a 4.0 GPA, fantastic SAT scores, loads of extracurricular activites, etc., but did not get into UT because she was in the 11% of her graduating class. In contrast, they profiled a student from a low-performing HS in San Antonio who had a B average and mediocre SAT score, but she got into UT because she was in top 10%. The rule is simply not fair. It punishes kids for going to good schools.

Also an interesting tidbit - the freshman class at Texas State had a higher average SAT score than the freshman class at UT, largely because a lot of very bright, A students don't get into UT. But they go to Texas State because it is still close to Austin.

I highly doubt 60 Minutes did a story about public university admissions in Texas. This hardly has national interest.

The average SAT score at UT is far higher than at Texas State. The average SAT at UT is definitely kept down by the top 10% system (due to people with sub-1100 scores) but it's certainly not at the level of Texas State or even Texas A&M.

[hoffdano]

Originally Posted by Mdlx

Ive heard the way things are going right now, by the time 2013 rolls around, UT will only be able to accept 10%ers. That is just wrong. Think about all the great international talent and transfers from other colleges that will be turned away.

Ironically, its times like these we could use some help from TAMU. Back when the law started, TAMU was a popular choice for high school seniors. I would say it was about evenly split with UT on the radar for top 10%ers. Since that time, UT has become more popular and TAMU less popular mostly because of their football programs(sadly). Now it seems more high school top 10% graduates choose UT over TAMU.

Something has to be done. I dont think what has been suggested in the past by UT is the right answer. Having a cap of 50% or any cap for top 10% admissions erases everything the law was trying to accomplish in the first place. Which top 10% do you admit and which to deny?

Maybe something like a top 5 6 or 7% rule?

Why do you think A&M isn't a top choice of high school graduates? A&M enrollment is at a record high. 2008's freshman class grew by 1584 over 2007.

I agree more top 10% students seem to want to go to UT. But that could be a demographic factor. I doubt it has anything to do with A&M's currently mediocre football team.

[Mdlx]

Originally Posted by hoffdano

Why do you think A&M isn't a top choice of high school graduates? A&M enrollment is at a record high. 2008's freshman class grew by 1584 over 2007.

I agree more top 10% students seem to want to go to UT. But that could be a demographic factor. I doubt it has anything to do with A&M's currently mediocre football team.

You might be very surprised by the amount of recognition a good football team gives to a university. Think about for instance the media outlets in Houston.

Because of years (probably close to a decade) of failed football seasons, no one longer does any reporting of Aggy football. All they report on is UT football and all the success under mack brown. You better believe that some kids are influenced to go to school at UT just because they hear the name more often.

Back in 2007, TAMU only had 47% of their freshman admitted under top10% compared to 71% for UT.

If TAMU had a decade of great football with a national championship and UT had been horrible for just as long, Im very sure there would be more than 47% top10% students being admitted at TAMU.

Of course football is not the only reason for the differences of the amount of students admitted under the rule but it most certainly has a little something to do with it. Like you said, I believe demographics play a part in it as well. College station is not a very diverse place.

[CarnivalGal]

Originally Posted by mwv

I highly doubt 60 Minutes did a story about public university admissions in Texas. This hardly has national interest.

The average SAT score at UT is far higher than at Texas State. The average SAT at UT is definitely kept down by the top 10% system (due to people with sub-1100 scores) but it's certainly not at the level of Texas State or even Texas A&M.

Originally reported by 60 Minutes correspondant Lesley Stahl in 2004. Here's a link:
Is The "Top 10" Plan Unfair? - CBS News

I don't have time to check on SAT scores, but the information was given to me by the UT Alumni Association (my husband is an active Life Member).

[CarnivalGal]

Originally Posted by hoffdano

Why do you think A&M isn't a top choice of high school graduates? A&M enrollment is at a record high. 2008's freshman class grew by 1584 over 2007.

I agree more top 10% students seem to want to go to UT. But that could be a demographic factor. I doubt it has anything to do with A&M's currently mediocre football team.

I think it has more to do with location. And there is a sort of mystique about UT. I think there's a mystique about A&M too, but UT's gets a lot more media attention, thanks to the athletics program. I also think people view A&M as more of an agricutural school. So if kids want to go into a different field (liberal arts, etc.) they don't really take a close look at A&M.

[SF_treat]

We saw that 60 minutes literally whilst packing our boxes to make the move to Austin. It made a huge impression on us and made us know we didn't want to live in Westlake/Eanes.