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IQ tests are just a general measure of overall intelligence and they have proven to be very effective in doing just that, measuring intelligence. You can also correlate graduation rates, academic performance, and economic success with IQ scores and you'll find they correlate extremely well, e.g. the higher the IQ score the better the academic performance and the greater the economic success.
South Africa appears worse off today than it was under apartheid. Violent crime is extremely high. Life expectancy went down 5 years since 1991. And instead of becoming a racially tolerant society, some SA government officials now intend to steal property from white farmers, whose Boer ancestors were the first to farm in South Africa. There would be no agriculture in SA without the Boers who cultivated the region.
I'd say it was difficult to maintain a stable economy when the Soviet Union was funding violent marxists who wanted to overthrow Rhodesia and South Africa. They succeed with Rhodesia which turned into the disaster we know of as Zimbabwe, which is still a disaster. Zimbabwe is now trying to invite back white farmers to grow food for their starving population. You can't escape the irony in that!
The police had to be brutal, they were facing a Soviet backed insurgency. Imagine a foreign entity funneling weapons and money to try to destroy your nation & government, what would you do?
Blacks generally don't perform nearly as well as whites or asians, it doesn't matter how much money you throw at them, their performance levels never seem to rise much. We spend more money on education per student here in America, more than any other nation, and the results for black students are still lackluster. I think the discrepancy is more of a genetic/cognitive issue and can't be solved by more money or more education.
That's because the whites founded South Africa, formed its first government & political system, and were the first to create agriculture in that region of Africa. Why is that surprising?
Many of the current blacks who live in South Africa were not originally from there. Their ancestors were mostly Bantu invaders who came from the North and have only been present in the South African region for a few hundred years at most. The only real SA natives who could rightfully claim some sort of indigenous land are the Khoisan people/bushmen.
This is pretty much true for any country that is predominantly black. I can't think of any majority black nation that has a high standard of living.
Every society is unequal.
There will always be rich & poor.
That's reality and it won't change. Some humans perform better than others. Some humans are smarter than others. Some humans work harder than others. Some humans have better beliefs & attitudes which help them succeed.
Fighting for equality is a futile endeavor.
The old IQ debate. Do folk still debate that? It was found flawed way back in the eighties. Talk about attempting to harvest over long scorched and infertile ground.
It doesn't really matter who got where first. USA history should point the way towards highlighting to you that the original inhabitants do not necessary fare well.
In the context of RSA, a problem I will concede is the vast numbers of often undocumented entrants from other countries within the continent. These folk, even documented, do compete against South African born and create resentment and worse.
Why do you imagine a nation built on such intolerance would suddenly become a beacon of tolerance just through a change of government? Life has always been tough for the majority, not getting any better for the majority, while hopes of improvement proved futile.
Perhaps the correct question would be, ' Where was the proposed civil/racial/tribal war that many were led to believe would occur, once/if the minority 'white' led government was to cease control?
How is it so many years since majority rule, that by far the greater wealth remains in the hands of that small minority of people?
Perhaps we should ask, ' How could the black majority on taking power not seek out revenge of their oppressors and express a policy of forgiveness to most those that abused their power?
As someone whom lived in RSA during apartheid and has visited three times since majority rule, I can say it has worsened from many perspectives. It is certainly more dangerous for myself as a Caucasian.
I have talked to and been informed by Black workers for white families/business that times are tougher now with rampant drug abuse, crime, violence within their neighbourhoods worse than apartheid times.
But again these are older folk over forty. Their kids can't imagine a life dictated by the colour of skin, but do know the difference between being rich and poor.
Well if the majority had been included in the political process there would have been no need for out side intervention. Your Marxists fought through Cuban proxy a war of liberation as they saw it, just as the vast American war machine fought what they considered 'a just intervention' in Indo China.
Hardly a lot of difference at the end of the day, apart from the Americans having far 'more resources' shall we say, to throw at the 'enemy'.
No the reality is some humans are ahead on the opportunities offered than others, some come from areas of the world where education is taken for granted, as well as health services and rights to human dignity prevail.
It is not a question of equality in the since of being the same, but a sense of justice and squashing the feelings of entitlement to an ever declining group within society (of many countries) that feels they have a God given right to entitlement.
If elements within any society feel a lack of hope, obviously they feel they have little to loose.
IQ tests only measure general intelligence, they don't account for psychopathy or mental illness. There are other tests that measure for that.
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Originally Posted by herenow1
I have been to several universities and the professors when they discussed Iq tests did admit there were flaws with it.
Flaws such as...?
IQ tests are extremely reliable, even our CIA (central intelligence agency) and military give IQ tests along with an assortment of other tests to measure the abilities of recruits. They might not be perfect but they are very realiable and IQ results can be positively correlated with other measures such as academic performance, economic success, etc.
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Originally Posted by herenow1
I have known African immigrants here in Australia and some have been to university here in Australia and since then they got very good job
Exceptions never prove to be a rule.
Generally speaking, African immigrants or people of African ancestry tend to underperform when compared to Europeans or Asians. And then there are other categories such as crime, poverty, level of societal advancement in African countries, etc, where Africans always place at the very bottom.
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Originally Posted by herenow1
You talk about South Africa being a S**** hole country but it different from its neighbour Botswana.
I never specifically said South Africa was a "s*** hole", although there certainly are parts of SA that could be described as that.
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Originally Posted by herenow1
Botswana economy has very much grown since it became independent from British rule. It has a stable government.
Nearly all the previous British colonies are much better off than neighboring nations that were never colonized, that's an interesting point.
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Originally Posted by herenow1
It is one of the worlds fastest growing economies ever since it became independent from the UK. The Bahamas which is a black majority and is a country next door to Cuba and the USA is doing well economically
That's good to hear.
I honestly wish the best for every nation in the world.
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Originally Posted by herenow1
Well, Australia did put sanctions on South Africa during apartheid. The first sanctions were due to the actions of the most famous Australian cricketer of his time Donald Bradman who when to South Africa and met the South African Prime minister who asked him how come no Blacks were represented in that game? The Prime Minister stated it because Blacks are not intelligent enough to play the game Donald Bradman argued with him as, after all, he did play against Black players who were very good at cricket. After that incident, he had the power to ban the South African cricket side for touring Australia, and from then until the end of Apartheid, no South African team toured Australia.
Playing sports doesn't require much in the way of cognitive ability, so the SA prime minister was incorrect in his assumption. If the SA prime minister at the time had stated instead that blacks were not intelligent enough to be rocket scientists, then there would probably be some truth to that statement, given the average low IQ of African people. Although there are individual exceptions and certainly there are some high IQ Africans that have become a rocket scientist or physicist, but they're the exceptions to the rule.
The notion that a nation needs more diversity to be successful is absurdly ludicrous, and the evidence shows the exact opposite, e.g. the most successful nations, like Japan, Finland, Switzerland, etc, tend to be more homogeneous and less diverse.
You're cherry picking here. North Korea, Albania, Mongolia, Bangladesh, and Portugal are some of the most homogeneous nations on earth. Generally not very successful places either economically, socially or culturally. Also Switzerland is a pretty multi-cultural place. Being that it has four official languages and 20% of its population is foreign born.
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Originally Posted by Masterful_Man
America and Brazil are more dysfunctional and much more diverse. We have higher crime rates, more political infighting, etc. More diversity simply leads to more differences, and differences can lead to disagreements, and that can lead to conflict.
I would imagine that gross economic inequality along with an unbelievable amount of firearms available has far more to do with the crime rates and violence then the fact that both nations are multi-ethnic. Also statistically people tend to commit crimes within their own ethnic group, so how would ethnic diversity effect crime levels?
You're cherry picking here. North Korea, Albania, Mongolia, Bangladesh, and Portugal are some of the most homogeneous nations on earth. Generally not very successful places either economically, socially or culturally.
Portugal is a fantastic country, I don't know what you're talking about. I've been to both Lisbon & Porto and parts of the countryside and absolutely loved it. It rates right up there with Spain in many respects.
Albania and much of the balkans had to be divded up because they couldn't get along, they were too diverse apparently!
North Korea sucks because of its socialist-totalitarian form of government. In contrast, South Korea is fantastic economically while also being very homogenous.
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Originally Posted by KenFresno
Also Switzerland is a pretty multi-cultural place. Being that it has four official languages and 20% of its population is foreign born.
Switzerland is still mostly made up of a mix of western Europeans, although in recent times they've allowed many non-European foreigners to immigrate. But Switzerland recently took a tough stance on immigration and will no longer grant citizenship to refugees or immigrants on welfare. Good for them.
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Originally Posted by KenFresno
I would imagine that gross economic inequality along with an unbelievable amount of firearms available has far more to do with the crime rates and violence then the fact that both nations are multi-ethnic.
Blacks make up only 13% of the U.S. population but they account for nearly 50% of all the homicides.
Also, much of sub-Saharan Africa has very high rates of violence and murder compared to Europe or Asia. I would argue that a lower IQ combined with a less advanced culture makes one more likely to adopt a criminal lifestyle.
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Originally Posted by KenFresno
Also statistically people tend to commit crimes within their own ethnic group, so how would ethnic diversity effect crime levels?
Blacks commit a large amount of crimes against white victims here in America in addition to commiting large numbers of crime against their own people. In cities like Seattle and San Francisco, black criminals itentionally target Asian people for robbery and theft.
IQ tests only measure general intelligence, they don't account for psychopathy or mental illness. There are other tests that measure for that.
Flaws such as...?
IQ tests are extremely reliable, even our CIA (central intelligence agency) and military give IQ tests along with an assortment of other tests to measure the abilities of recruits. They might not be perfect but they are very realiable and IQ results can be positively correlated with other measures such as academic performance, economic success, etc.
Exceptions never prove to be a rule.
Generally speaking, African immigrants or people of African ancestry tend to underperform when compared to Europeans or Asians. And then there are other categories such as crime, poverty, level of societal advancement in African countries, etc, where Africans always place at the very bottom.
I never specifically said South Africa was a "s*** hole", although there certainly are parts of SA that could be described as that.
Nearly all the previous British colonies are much better off than neighboring nations that were never colonized, that's an interesting point.
That's good to hear.
I honestly wish the best for every nation in the world.
Playing sports doesn't require much in the way of cognitive ability, so the SA prime minister was incorrect in his assumption. If the SA prime minister at the time had stated instead that blacks were not intelligent enough to be rocket scientists, then there would probably be some truth to that statement, given the average low IQ of African people. Although there are individual exceptions and certainly there are some high IQ Africans that have become a rocket scientist or physicist, but they're the exceptions to the rule.
Well, I have studied psychology and teaching at a university and I can recall the professors going on about the flaws on IQ tests. Anyway, if you stating that IQ tests are used by the CIA to recruit people, how do you explain that the CIA stated Saddam of Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and it was used by President Bush to invade Iraq? Or the work of CIA help train extremist Islamist rebels in Syria? Or the CIA sponsored fake chemical attacks in Syria, so the Trump administration bombing Syria and with it risk war with the Russians? Or the CIA aiding extremist rebels in Libya to overthrow the secular leader of Lybia and Lybia was the richest African country prior to Western lead interventions in 2011 and since then the country is a failed state with masses of African refugees fleeing to Europe? Yet I could go on with the CIA interventions in Vietnam and their consequences lead to the Vietnam war, which eventually cost 50 000 lives all for fighting in a third world country.
Ethiopia has never been colonised except for the brief Italian invasion for a few years However these days its economy is one of the fastest in the world. Thailand neither has been colonised by the Europeans but they are in a better state than Indochina, or formerly British occupied Burma.
Well, the South African Prime Minister then was a Nazi supporter and did support Hitler during WW2. He was deeply influenced by social Darwinism, and that why he stated that Blacks are not good enough for playing cricket at a professional level.
Portugal is a fantastic country, I don't know what you're talking about. I've been to both Lisbon & Porto and parts of the countryside and absolutely loved it. It rates right up there with Spain in many respects.
Its nice to visit but its economy is one of the worst in Europe. How could this be the case when the country is so mono-ethnic and mono-cultural.
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Originally Posted by Masterful_Man
North Korea sucks because of its socialist-totalitarian form of government. In contrast, South Korea is fantastic economically while also being very homogenous.
So you have two countries both very culturally and ethnically homogenous. Yet the quality of life and standard of living are radically different. This would tell us that whether a country is homogenous or not doesn't seem to have much of an impact on its quality of life. So your whole argument about homogenous countries being better places to live doesn't seem to stand on anything substancial.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterful_Man
Blacks make up only 13% of the U.S. population but they account for nearly 50% of all the homicides.
Also, much of sub-Saharan Africa has very high rates of violence and murder compared to Europe or Asia. I would argue that a lower IQ combined with a less advanced culture makes one more likely to adopt a criminal lifestyle.
Countries in the Middle East generally have very low crime rates. Often even lower then countries in Europe. Qatar, Oman, and Palestine for example has a lower homocide rates then Germany. Thus Germans must have a lower IQ and a less advanced culture to explain the homocide disparity. Do you think Qatar and Oman are more advanced countries then Germany?
As far as causes for murder. Europe in the Middle Ages had a very high murder rate. Why was this the case? It had nothing to do with genetics but with access to education, social mobility, and civil institutions.
African Americans for 90% of American history had no access to education, no chance for social mobility and limited access to civil institutions. Is it a wonder that so many of them turned to crime? When your white European ancestors were in the same boat they also turned to crime.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterful_Man
Blacks commit a large amount of crimes against white victims here in America in addition to commiting large numbers of crime against their own people. In cities like Seattle and San Francisco, black criminals itentionally target Asian people for robbery and theft.
Proportionally speaking, if you are white in America you are at much greater risks being attacked and killed by another white person then a black person. Sorry but all the data backs this up.
Forget about flawed IQ tests. Obviously, those of a certain frame of thinking, whom apparently have 'jumped' this thread, in order to continue to sprout their beliefs with a deep desire to underline the inferiority of a species of the Human Race, will unlikely ever be brought to task due to rational argument why bother?
It is important though that views of long proven odious Nazi thinking is challenged at every point though, not to change the mind of the messenger but those of uncritical mindsets that may be influenced by such speech.
This should apply not only too those harbouring Nazi philosophies of course, but anyone wanting to put their view over as superior to others, those that seek to incite others to hatred, be they Black, White or Brindle. Be they Islamophobes, Jewish baiters, Islam/Jewish fascists, Communists or any other colour of politics, nationalism that seeks to control thought, lessen rights, degrade humanity, disrespect another view through racial/gender/sexual vileness.
Simply fact being everybody has the right to live the life they deem fit. One does not need to agree with a particular philosophy as long as it passes 'the test'. Live and let live being the only narrative worthwhile. That requires speaking up and out at those attempting to denigrate others and lesson our freedoms and taking whatever steps necessary to prevent an atmosphere of bigotry from having the fertile ground to ever flourish again.
Attempting to diminish a large section of the population goes nowhere and is a big failure 'of the test'.
Well, I have studied psychology and teaching at a university and I can recall the professors going on about the flaws on IQ tests. Anyway, if you stating that IQ tests are used by the CIA to recruit people, how do you explain that the CIA stated Saddam of Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and it was used by President Bush to invade Iraq? Or the work of CIA help train extremist Islamist rebels in Syria? Or the CIA sponsored fake chemical attacks in Syria, so the Trump administration bombing Syria and with it risk war with the Russians? Or the CIA aiding extremist rebels in Libya to overthrow the secular leader of Lybia and Lybia was the richest African country prior to Western lead interventions in 2011 and since then the country is a failed state with masses of African refugees fleeing to Europe? Yet I could go on with the CIA interventions in Vietnam and their consequences lead to the Vietnam war, which eventually cost 50 000 lives all for fighting in a third world country.
Did you learn about logical fallacies at a university?
That requires speaking up and out at those attempting to denigrate others and lesson our freedoms and taking whatever steps necessary to prevent an atmosphere of bigotry from having the fertile ground to ever flourish again.
Who determines what is necessary, and is there any limit to these steps in your world view?
Forget about flawed IQ tests. Obviously, those of a certain frame of thinking, whom apparently have 'jumped' this thread, in order to continue to sprout their beliefs with a deep desire to underline the inferiority of a species of the Human Race, will unlikely ever be brought to task due to rational argument why bother?
It is important though that views of long proven odious Nazi thinking is challenged at every point though, not to change the mind of the messenger but those of uncritical mindsets that may be influenced by such speech.
This should apply not only too those harbouring Nazi philosophies of course, but anyone wanting to put their view over as superior to others, those that seek to incite others to hatred, be they Black, White or Brindle. Be they Islamophobes, Jewish baiters, Islam/Jewish fascists, Communists or any other colour of politics, nationalism that seeks to control thought, lessen rights, degrade humanity, disrespect another view through racial/gender/sexual vileness.
.
Well, I finished with this thread as it has been hijacked by Masterful_Man. I could discuss more race and intelligence as well as Iq tests, however, I do not want to feed the troll.
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