Automated Safety Devices Worry the Hell Out Of Me.

[ryuns]

Originally Posted by iTsLiKeAnEgG

Even if the systems fail the number of lives saved far outweighs the occasional loss. Sometimes you just have to look at it in terms of numbers. I could sleep at night knowing that the combined safety devices saved 100 lives for every 1 that was lost due to system failure in combination with poor driver training.

This. I actually quite a bit of confidence in the way the folks like NTSB evaluate these things and recommend them for mandatory adoption. It strikes me as a very fair balance of risk (increased cost to the vehicle, possibility of system error) and reward (fewer people dying). I have some faith in my own driving ability and extremely little faith in the driving ability of those who may hit me. Even that simplistic notion ignores the reality that software can simply react more quickly and with better precision than I can. Even I understood all of the scenarios under which I could loose traction and the best way to regain it, there's no way I can control each brake independently. But traction control can.

[rbohm]

Originally Posted by ovcatto

Call me a tech luddite but I am seriously concerned about the increasing automation of automobiles. Traction control, radar/sonar activated braking, even ABS are all wonderful innovations but... if there is one thing that we have learned from commercial aviation, computers fail and if the pilots don't know how to respond, the plane crashes. The problem is most drivers lack adequate skills as it is and even fewer know what to do when systems fail. My fear is a future with drivers with even greater deprecated driving skills relying on systems that are not 100% fail safe.

Any thoughts?

while nothing is 100% fail safe, i do agree with you that electronic aids are hurting driving skills of the average driver. they rely too much on these electronic aids to handle day to day issues. personally i think driver skills started diminishing in the late 80s as the states across the nation made it easier to get a drivers license, and when they allowed people to let their licenses last longer than 5 years.

back in the day you really had to drive the car since they had drum brakes, no power steering, no power brakes, and tires that had all the traction of the average pizza cutter. you really had to plan ahead for braking, acceleration, etc. these days you can get lazy behind the wheel and still get to where you are going providing there or no emergencies that the electronic suite cant handle, or the electronic suite doesnt fail.

[ovcatto]

Originally Posted by iTsLiKeAnEgG

Even if the systems fail the number of lives saved far outweighs the occasional loss.

I certainly don't have a beef with that argument, clearly the numbers would indicate that driving safety is enhanced in the aggregate by many of these technological advances.

Originally Posted by raveabouttoast

I do understand your original point, but I don't have enough faith in most drivers.

I still don't think you do. If you don't have faith now, how much faith are you going to have when you entrust the car with all the responsibility?

Originally Posted by rbohm

back in the day you really had to drive the car since they had drum brakes, no power steering, no power brakes, and tires that had all the traction of the average pizza cutter. you really had to plan ahead for braking, acceleration, etc. these days you can get lazy behind the wheel and still get to where you are going providing there or no emergencies that the electronic suite cant handle, or the electronic suite doesnt fail.

Cases in point, a recent series of caught on camera incidents where motorist were driving cars with "stuck" accelerators reaching speeds in access of 100mph. Yes the accelerator is stuck! Pull the mat from underneath it, throw the transmission into neutral or at the very least 1st, turn the freaking engine off! Yet these folks could call 911 but could figure out how to stop their cars....

[Ted Bear]

A GREAT number of people out there on the road are completely in the zombie zone. They have no idea of their presence, their p[ositioning on the road, nor what is going on around them. Every day there are millions of drivers who are just a whisker from a crash, and only because the 'other guy' was paying attention did they avoid disaster. Over dibnner tonight they won't have a clue that they are lucky to be alive.

For those folks alone, anything we can give them which will help protect us from them is a positive. Sure, mechanical devices fail, technology fails, and 'programmed' behaviors is probably not the best solution in all cases, but the numbers suggest that we are better off (much better off) with these devices, than we are without them.

Now...if you want to get into the sticky weeds, wait till you experience the 'monitoring systems' which are slowly creeping into your car. Think of it as a black box: Speed, location, torque, braking, systems status, number of people in the car, where have you been (bar?), tire wear, engine performance, seat belt on, lights on or off, wiper condition and speed, environmental conditions. reaction times--you name, they will be monitored. The good side? When you crash it sends a signal saying your 2009 Taurus with three people on board (gives their weight and location inside the vehicle) traveling 65 mph on a wet road crashed at a level of three G's with a right front impact. Two of the three passengers were wearing their seat belts; all airbags deployed; there is no sign of motion on the front drivers side. If you agree to allow them to monitor you, your insurance company will give you a discount--until they find out that (because you let them) you routinely drive on bald tires and exceed the speed limit. The bad side? If you stop to have a beer on the way home from the auto assembly line, your breath will show this; your reaction times will show to be slow, your location will be tracked (as you swing by the known pot dealer to pick up a joint for the evening) , and your insurance company will likely have grounds to dump you.

Technology cuts both ways.

[SabresFanInSA]

People dont pay attention when they drive. 5-10 years ago they didnt pay attention AND didnt have technology so in that vein we are better off. Some times the rise of the machines is a good thing.