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Originally Posted by dkf747 My friend bought an Accord because of quality. She has had nothing but problem after problem after problem with it. She won't be fooled again.
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Originally Posted by eddie1278
I love the myth that import cars like Hondas are better quality over the rest. Gullable people have been believing this myth for decades. I'm not saying Honda or other imports aren't quality made I'm saying they aren't any better then the rest.
My mother bought a new Toyota Celica in 1980. Even though that model was highly acclaimed by the auto media, that car was the biggest POS that I have even seen. The gas mileage was horrible, no better than a fully equipped Pontiac Bonneville. The driver and front passenger sat on the floor, and had no leg room at all. She rarely drove the car and never at high speed, but the engine blew up at only 60,000 miles while I was driving down the freeway. A Toyota mechanic said that they had built in defects that year which caused poor oil circulation which caused the engine to seize up. With models like that, I never could understand what people saw in Toyota. The only positives that I can think of are that the fake plastic wood looked great on the dash, and the vinyl used in the seats and door panels was of good quality.
How long did it take VW to sell anything other than the Beetle?
You've forgotten the VW Bus? It came in many different configurations including a truck.
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Look at all the European brands that tried and failed because of poor quality? Fiat, Peugeot, Alfa, Citroen, Renault, Triumph, MG, Rover, TVR, and others.....
All manufacturers have had failed models, but these guys most were junk, and it was buyer beware.
I agree that WWII was not per se a factor. It was only factor in the sense that Japan's manufacturing was rebuilt with America's help post war.
The US also rebuilt German industry, and in one of the most amazing episodes, The US Gov't reimbursed GM for damaging/destroying their Opel factories during WW II. You know--the same Opel factories that were manufacturing munitions for the Nazi regime.
Look at all the European brands that tried and failed because of poor quality? Fiat, Peugeot, Alfa, Citroen, Renault, Triumph, MG, Rover, TVR, and others.....
It wasn't just a quality issue.
It was also an issue of not having a decent parts system.
While VW's Beetle was of better quality than the aforementioned competitors, where they really beat their competitors was with the VW parts network. VW dealers were required to stock an incredible assortment and quantity of parts--including body parts--and any part was available from VW of the US w/in 3 days-- maximum.
If you take...let's say...Renault or Fiat...dealers tended to have so few parts in stock, and there was so little warehouse stock of parts that these manufacturers sometimes authorized cannibalizing new cars sitting in storage lots.
However, that cannibalization was not the norm, and in the case of Fiat, it was not unusual for a customer's car to sit for 2 or 3 months before the needed parts arrived from Italy.
By the time the late 60s and early 70s came around, our enemies in WW2 were making vast strides in car quality and innovation.
Your timeline isn't very accurate. Japanese cars in the late 60's and early 70's were not known for quality. It wasn't until the 80's that they started producing reliable, well-built vehicles that began eating into Detroit's market share.
Detroit's problems had more to do with ever stringent safety and emissions regulations, being caught flat-footed during the 1970's oil embargoes, and increasingly complacent management. The 1970 clean air act was the turning point, which led to anemic engines, cost cutting, cheaper materials, and longer product cycles (previously, new designs would appear every 1-2 years--in the 70's they started stretching to 4-6 years). The UAW and the jobs banks also share some of the blame, leading to a culture that simply didn't care about the quality of product they were producing. I would also say that the shift toward robotics and CAD also caused problems, as early vehicles were unable to be built to the same tolerances as when they were assembled by hand--which led to the panel gaps and creaky interiors that a lot of people remember about 70's and 80's cars.
American car quality fell in the late 80s to early 2000s. Toyota/Lexus, Mercedes Benz, BMW, Rolls Royce, Bentley all made cars with edge cutting technologies during the turn of the century. But what did GM, Chrysler, or Ford come out with during the time? Normal cars. I mean the 2010 Cadillac DTS still had a drivetrain from the late 90s. Domestic brands were just playing it off like it was no big deal making crappy cars until 2 of the 3 went bankrupt in 2009.
Now they are making some better cars. Even if WW2 never happened the Japanese/European brands would still be making innovative cars.
When will you stop with the 60 years in a row stuff? GM had it easy when the only competition was Ford, Rambler, Studebaker, and Chrysler. Once the imports showed up, all American makers lost market share. GM most of all.
Get this in your head. Millions of car buyers quit buying GM because other cars (from everywhere in the world including Detroit) were better.
The only market segment GM leads is full size SUVs.
Hey victimofGM where do you get all your hard evidence to support your personal opinions? Did you ask all the millions of people who bought other cars over GM the reason why? That's a pretty wild claim you make. Also GM leads in only the SUV market? Again you got proof? I think not. More straight up bs from a person who never owned or even drove a GM in their life...it's quite obvious.
American car quality fell in the late 80s to early 2000s. Toyota/Lexus, Mercedes Benz, BMW, Rolls Royce, Bentley all made cars with edge cutting technologies during the turn of the century. But what did GM, Chrysler, or Ford come out with during the time? Normal cars. I mean the 2010 Cadillac DTS still had a drivetrain from the late 90s. Domestic brands were just playing it off like it was no big deal making crappy cars until 2 of the 3 went bankrupt in 2009.
Now they are making some better cars. Even if WW2 never happened the Japanese/European brands would still be making innovative cars.
Yep that's why they continued to outsell every automaker in the world.....LOL
Prior to WW2, American car companies had to compete with English, German, French, and Italian cars. But after WW2, many of those factories were destroyed. Even if the factories survived, the economy was in the tank around Europe as they went about the task of rebuilding. BMW even badged an Isetta car with their name. During this time after the war, American car companies had all of USA and other parts of the world all to themselves. Those were the good old days. The 50s and 60s are remembered fondly as the hey day of American cars. By the time the late 60s and early 70s came around, our enemies in WW2 were making vast strides in car quality and innovation. Most Americans then still had absolute brand/country loyalty. Why engineer quality and innovation when your customers buy anything with their company's name on it? Combine that with Nixon, Watergate, and Vietnam and you begin to develop a segment of the population starting to turn their back on the nation and heritage. They're more willing to give our former enemies' cars. As they do this, they see better quality materials, ride, handling, and sometimes better performance. They let their friends and family know how much they enjoy these Axis vehicles. After suffering problems with their American cars, they decide to give the Axis cars a chance. None of this happened overnight. I wonder if WW2 hadn't happened, would American car makers have continued to innovate and provide quality to continue to compete in the world. At one time, Cadillac was the "World Standard". Today, that "World Standard" is a joke remark as Cadillac is trying to catch up with BMW.
kind of funny you bring up ww2 and us cars when BMW was associated with the Nazi party.
American car quality fell in the late 80s to early 2000s. Toyota/Lexus, Mercedes Benz, BMW, Rolls Royce, Bentley all made cars with edge cutting technologies during the turn of the century. But what did GM, Chrysler, or Ford come out with during the time? Normal cars. I mean the 2010 Cadillac DTS still had a drivetrain from the late 90s.
The Northstar production was from 1991 thru the 2010 model year and was a very successful engine. Are you trying to bash a good design. The small block Chevrolet V8 was in production from 1955 to 2003 in vehicles. Are you claiming other manufacturers don't do the same? The VW bug engine was produced how long? Besides, you forget the Northstar got a variable cam timing update in 2004. You know the variable cam timing Europeans are using that Ford invented.
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