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You do realize the concentration of those "pollutants" I breathe daily, is much higher than what you all do correct? Never mind the fact I'm up to my elbows in grease/waste oil. Still no skin cancer. Still have perfect lung function. Cancer free. Guess I'm a genetic freak?
You all act as though a diesel goes around injecting cancer in the air. That's laughable. I love it.
To get that much NOX and other pollutants to make such a difference to the atmosphere, you would have to fill every square inch that isn't populated by a structure with the richest burning Diesel engine to produce literally hundreds of thousands if not millions of tons of exhaust pollutants to make a difference correct?
But but but science says...
And common sense says in order for that to be a contributing factor you would need astronomical amounts of unfiltered, untreated exhaust to make enough of an impact on the atmosphere for that to be true. Guess the word CONCENTRATION was overlooked...
Still awaiting lung issues...
Still awaiting health issues...
Remember, I'm a diesel tech. I have typically 2/3 bays at every dealer I've worked at.
2/3 trucks running at the same time...
Still healthy as a horse still waiting for the bronchitis asthma and breathing issues...
I am sure you know that your garage has air handling systems and large doors that open to provide fresh air. A typical garage has piping to channel the soot out of the garage. Isn't that a state requirement? If you and your fellows in the garage are not using these systems, then I don't know what to say to you.
But even with that...
You want to claim that the air is not bad for you because you can stand being in it every day. Does this same claim not apply to coal miners with black lung? Don't they stand around in the coal mine with dust all around them all day, for hours, days, weeks, months, years, decades? When they die, isn't it often because the environment killed them? You are still waiting? Hopefully you will continue to wait, but I wonder how much damage has already been done? The fact that you have not yet hit the threshold is immaterial.
And what of other people who may not have the same constitution as you? Should the EPA be dismantled and their (especially the children and elderly who are more susceptible) lives threatened because YOU can take it?
Europe has the most experience with diesel exhaust and soot and they are reporting many deaths and bad health. Don't you think their research is apropos? Don't you think this trumps your anecdotes?
Anecdotal evidence is not fact.
Last edited by blktoptrvl; 01-17-2017 at 09:33 AM..
ULSD being 5ppm pretty much by itself should have been a good head at cleaning things up.
Correction - ULSD is a max of 15 PPM Sulfur. Not 5.
My Diesel Grand Cherokee is a great rig, it is almost perfect. It gets over 30 MPG highway and low 20s around town. It is comfortable and quiet, and is a nice highway cruiser. It tows well, and its off-road capabilities are great for a stock, luxury ride. But with good fuel economy, I love its range. I regularly get 550 miles a tankful, and the farthest I've ever gone on a tank is 835 miles.
I am sure you know that your garage has air handling systems and large doors that open to provide fresh air. A typical garage has piping to channel the soot out of the garage. Isn't that a state requirement? If you and your fellows in the garage are not using these systems, then I don't know what to say to you.
But even with that...
You want to claim that the air is not bad for you because you can stand being in it every day. Does this same claim not apply to coal miners with black lung? Don't they stand around in the coal mine with dust all around them all day, for hours, days, weeks, months, years, decades? When they die, isn't it often because the environment killed them? You are still waiting? Hopefully you will continue to wait, but I wonder how much damage has already been done? The fact that you have not yet hit the threshold is immaterial.
And what of other people who may not have the same constitution as you? Should the EPA be dismantled and their (especially the children and elderly who are more susceptible) lives threatened because YOU can take it?
Europe has the most experience with diesel exhaust and soot and they are reporting many deaths and bad health. Don't you think their research is apropos? Don't you think this trumps your anecdotes?
Anecdotal evidence is not fact.
If you seek to debate me stick on topic. Coal has nothing to do with diesel.
No it is not a state requirement if it was I'm sure the shops would have had what you mentioned. I haven't seen some air filtration device. Even in the brand new shop in NY. And as I said to you, we ran those trucks IN THE SHOP to get them up to operating temperature in the winter, holding them to the floor board a couple minutes after idling. Same with 6.0 injector replacement to purge air pockets out of the high pressure oil system.
I'd like to see how opening a door with the heat going will work for you when it's below 0.
As stated, I see a doctor once every 3 months. I have a full check up done, even blood work done.
*GASP* no heavy metals detectable, no signs of depleted oxygen content in the blood. No black lung shortness of breath. No asthma. Nothing that you claim!
I say again. Your fear mongering is irrational due to the fact there needs to be literally every un inhabited square inch to have a rich running coal rolling diesel to emit millions of tons worth of matter to make a difference.
If you seek to debate me stick on topic. Coal has nothing to do with diesel.
No it is not a state requirement if it was I'm sure the shops would have had what you mentioned. I haven't seen some air filtration device. Even in the brand new shop in NY. And as I said to you, we ran those trucks IN THE SHOP to get them up to operating temperature in the winter, holding them to the floor board a couple minutes after idling. Same with 6.0 injector replacement to purge air pockets out of the high pressure oil system.
I'd like to see how opening a door with the heat going will work for you when it's below 0.
As stated, I see a doctor once every 3 months. I have a full check up done, even blood work done.
*GASP* no heavy metals detectable, no signs of depleted oxygen content in the blood. No black lung shortness of breath. No asthma. Nothing that you claim!
I say again. Your fear mongering is irrational due to the fact there needs to be literally every un inhabited square inch to have a rich running coal rolling diesel to emit millions of tons worth of matter to make a difference.
I'm sorry you could not make the jump and see that the reference to coal was appropriate and correct. It is not about coal specifically, but about sickness and diseases for which the effect is not immediately obvious - that is just one of the points you cannot seem to grasp.
Speaking of staying on topic, "I'd like to see how opening a door with the heat going will work for you when it's below 0" is meaningless in this conversation.
But I say again, your anecdotes and your very limited experience has no relationship to the science and research being performed (BTW, not something I claim). I can understand that you may not want to accept the science, but to be honest, I would rather take the word and results of research of someone who turns on a mass spectrometer every day over that of someone who turn on a oil suction pump.
Fear mongering? No. That is another fallacy you are promoting - not me. If science, research, and medical experience has shown that breathing soot is not healthy, then I am saying that it is beneficial to have an agency perform this research and set standards. On the other hand as far as I can tell, you are saying that the EPA should be abolished because you think the pollution of soot is inconsequential.
I don't buy your arguments. Nor do I think the rest of us should have to breath bad air because you like to tinker with diesel trucks.
Edit: Why is it you are going to the doctor every 3 months? Could it be because there are potential dangers associated with what you do and the checkups are precautionary? Or is it because you go to the doctor for kicks? Also, how old are you? 30? How long have you been doing this job?
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,724 posts, read 58,067,115 times
Reputation: 46190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake
It all comes back to the manipulation of the regs by the EPA. Gas engines are cleaner than diesel in regards to certain emissions, diesel is better in others. Rather than set up the standards in a manner that looked at total emissions and allow higher ones in some areas in return for lower in others, the EPA set up a standard based around gasoline. Gas engines are never going to match the fuel efficiency of diesels due to the basic thermodynamics involved. So, rather than improve the basic engine, they throw bandaids like "hybrid" tech that is designed to do what VW and Chrysler are accused of doing-gaming the system to look good on EPA fuel economy tests. While often not delivering in real world driving.
Hopefully a more common sense administration will look for some balance, and make it easier for makers that have been selling diesels that meet Europe's and the rest of the world's standards be sold in the US. I understand that Mazda is planning to bring the CX-5 diesel to the US market later this year-I might just spring for one. They have been selling them in Europe for several years and get great reviews.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This is very important to understand. The current regs are very Gasoline centric and embraced by the US automakers and CARB. "Total Emissions" and "Harmful Emissions" are not considered.
Too bad for USA
I was just conversing with my friend who has the BMW 328d and X5 D, he is very pleased, I will look into an X3 D for Euro delivery, but will sell when it gets sent to USA.
The Hyundai diesels are very prominent in other countries, and doing very well (Economy and dependability). I use them several times / day in taxis. Probably a TDI type, quiet and quick.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,724 posts, read 58,067,115 times
Reputation: 46190
Quote:
Originally Posted by eaton53
So far GM seems to be the only one smart enough to make an inexpensive U.S. compliant diesel.
I'd normally think "they're next" but then they made sure the Colorado was EPA compliant.
No sales until they were absolutely certain. It delayed the release of the truck for some time.
but... GM has quite a history of US Diesel Disasters... from the 1960's 'toro-flo' to the 1980's Oldsmobile conversions.
IIRC, the Cruze has 'exhaust after treatment' requirement that robs the spare tire space You can just strap a spare tire to the roof or front bumper.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,724 posts, read 58,067,115 times
Reputation: 46190
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY_refugee87
You do realize the concentration of those "pollutants" I breathe daily, is much higher than what you all do correct? Never mind the fact I'm up to my elbows in grease/waste oil. Still no skin cancer. Still have perfect lung function. Cancer free. Guess I'm a genetic freak?
......
media sensationalizes to suit the fickle public understanding. I hear of thousands of NYC school children who will die from diesel school bus exhaust, yet millions of us were 'weaned' on the smokestack of a tractor shooting us in the face 16 hrs / day from birth to age 80.
Yes, we need to be prudent, but there are SO MANY ways to skin this cat. EPA is all set on a 'hang'n, vs a solution. That attitude creates 'outlaws' (VW).
The means and technology exist, (but 'reason' does not exist in USA) many countries are doing a GREAT job (not the USA)
In the meantime... (on the outlaw theme...)
I would rather be Make'n dust, than Eat'n dust... so I will stay in my VW, Dodge, Kenworth (cummins), Mack, Kubota, Yanmar, Cat, Case, John Deere, Fiat, Nissan, and Deutz Diesels. And many more to come
I'm sorry you could not make the jump and see that the reference to coal was appropriate and correct. It is not about coal specifically, but about sickness and diseases for which the effect is not immediately obvious - that is just one of the points you cannot seem to grasp.
Speaking of staying on topic, "I'd like to see how opening a door with the heat going will work for you when it's below 0" is meaningless in this conversation.
But I say again, your anecdotes and your very limited experience has no relationship to the science and research being performed (BTW, not something I claim). I can understand that you may not want to accept the science, but to be honest, I would rather take the word and results of research of someone who turns on a mass spectrometer every day over that of someone who turn on a oil suction pump.
Fear mongering? No. That is another fallacy you are promoting - not me. If science, research, and medical experience has shown that breathing soot is not healthy, then I am saying that it is beneficial to have an agency perform this research and set standards. On the other hand as far as I can tell, you are saying that the EPA should be abolished because you think the pollution of soot is inconsequential.
I don't buy your arguments. Nor do I think the rest of us should have to breath bad air because you like to tinker with diesel trucks.
Edit: Why is it you are going to the doctor every 3 months? Could it be because there are potential dangers associated with what you do and the checkups are precautionary? Or is it because you go to the doctor for kicks? Also, how old are you? 30? How long have you been doing this job?
Are you sure your garage has no built in filtration and exchange systems?
You suggested opening the door. That wasn't permissible. Unless you wanted to pay the heat Bill... I told you, idling and running said trucks inside a garage. I never once felt faint, I never once went into a coughing fit, I never once felt dizzy or light headed.
I'm absolutely positive the shops I worked in both NY and down here in Florida Do not have an air handler or filtration device. There's one in Vero that has hoses that hook up to an exhaust vacuum. I don't work at that one. I've been doing this career professionally for 10 years. I will be 30 in August. Main reason is due to my father who passed away with various ailments diabetes being the main one. So if you must know there you go.
he had the beetus. Bad, real bad. Blindness, neuropathy, had 2 heart attacks, a weakened immune system all from the beetus. That'll happen when you get fat and lazy and don't take care of yourself. Honestly don't feel sorry. He had a choice to make a change to live a better life. He didn't, was easier to just fill his face and dial up that insulin pump like a slob and make every reason in the book to not go to the doctor. That's on him. His brother suffered a stroke and has super high blood pressure related to being a drunkard, my aunt has failing kidneys and respiratory issues from being a welder. I even request urine testing as an added peace of mind, for I used to weld up roll cages for race cars. I function on 3-5 hours of sleep most every night. I can sleep when I'm dead. So there's health issues in my lineage that I plan to stay on top of. Does that suffice? Or do I need to give more reason?
I have missed 0 days of work related to breathing in diesel fumes or health issues related to said diesel fumes.
I live a very active life I go to the doctors every 3 months since I've been doing (19 1st dealer job) this for peace of mind and for when fear mongering to this extent arises herniated discs L2 and L3 and torn rotator cuff do not stop me from running, lifting weights, playing foot ball, hiking, hunting, riding my Harley, dirtbikes quads... I don't let fear, risks, or pain slow me down or disable me. There are days I don't want to move feels like getting hit in the back with a baseball bat when a muscle spasm occurs just from moving wrong I grit my teeth and soldier on. I don't take pain meds for it either. I'll see a chiropractor when my back is out and get readjusted. Good as new. Torn rotator cuff doesn't limit mobility I force it to work. When it acts up, I'll go to a sports doctor and get a turkey baster sized syringe with a roofing nail for a needle to shoot cortisone into the shoulder. I'm good for a year or 2 before it bothers me again. I don't get flu shots. I've never had anything more than a minor head cold with post nasal drip. Doctors have suggested shoulder surgery and back surgery. Nah. Nope. Maybe when I'm retired, I am not missing work for a 50/50 shot at it being fixed. Nope. Nor am I going to give up my hobbies and the life I live.
I don't sport a man bun aka douche donut, skinny jeans cutting the circulation off to my brain to become that close minded and be fear mongered into submission. My angle is to dispel the fear mongering.
Perhaps you'd prefer to live in a safe little bubble filled with unicorn farts and rainbow dust. I'll go on taking risks and having the time of my life while my career supports it. I'm telling you, there's presentation of facts on both sides. If you subscribe to being fear mongered into submission and believe personally that diesels are cancer on wheels you are sadly mistaken. And if you can't see these pollution control devices that are implemented cause catastrophic engine failures raising cost of ownership for people who depend on these vehicles for a paycheck there's no helping you.
I don't submit to anything or anyone. Especially this fear mongering of diesels being some new modern plague. I'll say it One. Last. Time.
You. Need. A huge. Concentration. Of. Rich. Running. Diesels. To. Produce. Enough. Emissions. To make. A significant. Dent. In air Pollution. That doesn't exist today does it?
If. The. EPA. Took. Funding. That it. Extorted. And used it. To place implements. To clean the air. Then they serve. A legitimate. Purpose. Otherwise. Be tried. Under the RICO act. For extortion. Taxing/fining based on carbon output, is pure laughable.
Only places I've been in that have air filtration systems so far are indoor shooting ranges and bars, because it's legal to smoke in bars.
Me going to have check ups done, is like how people bring their vehicles to a mechanic.
Those that neglect and don't maintain it properly usually have costly repair bills.
Those who are meticulous with maintenance goes in and requests a thorough look over and ask questions. Want to be on top of it to keep it in top notch shape. That's how I am with my health. Pre ACA it didn't cost as much, and health insurance picked it up with small copays. Now it's all out of pocket. Ohwell. Still waiting for the black lung and the cancer...
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You can just strap a spare tire to the roof or front bumper.
he had the beetus. Bad, real bad. Blindness, neuropathy, had 2 heart attacks, a weakened immune system all from the beetus. That'll happen when you get fat and lazy and don't take care of yourself. Honestly don't feel sorry. He had a choice to make a change to live a better life. He didn't, was easier to just fill his face and dial up that insulin pump like a slob and make every reason in the book to not go to the doctor. That's on him. His brother suffered a stroke and has super high blood pressure related to being a drunkard, my aunt has failing kidneys and respiratory issues from being a welder. I even request urine testing as an added peace of mind, for I used to weld up roll cages for race cars. I function on 3-5 hours of sleep most every night. I can sleep when I'm dead. So there's health issues in my lineage that I plan to stay on top of. Does that suffice? Or do I need to give more reason?
