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Old 06-02-2010, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Earth
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Anyone know what year automakers quit painting cars with laquer and why they quit using it?
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Old 06-02-2010, 11:45 PM
 
Location: Still in Portland, Oregon, for some reason
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As far as I know, the Volvo 240 was the last production car to use single stage paint up until production ended in 1993. People often cite the EPA as the reason for clearcoat paint becoming the norm but the answer is much simpler than that. When painting with single-stage (lacquer) paint, it requires two or three coats to get an even, durable coat that will last for years. Compare this to a clear-coated car which can look good with just a single color coat and a single layer of clear which is just paint without any pigment.

Both have their advantages and disadvantages. Single-stage paint looks much better when polished up because you are exposing fresh paint when polishing. I knew a guy who worked at a body shop and he said the black single-stage on those Volvo 240s would look so deep when you polished them, it was like nothing else in the world. The downside is it that it tends to be harder to keep looking good, mostly because it oxidizes much faster. Clearcoats don't oxidize as fast due to the lack of pigment in the top coat however keeping them well-maintained can be more difficult because you only have the clearcoat to polish. Clearcoat paint can also allow for more elaborate finishes like color-shift or metallic paint. However, if the clearcoat becomes compromised, the only alternative is a full-repaint.
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Old 06-03-2010, 07:56 AM
 
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the reasons for changing paints are many. the epa and their regulations regarding voc's are but one part. laquer, unless it is catalyzed, is not a long lasting paint to begin with thus the various automakers that used laquer dropped it in favor of more durable and environmentally friendly paint. the nice thing about clear coats is that you can severely reduce the possibility of burning the paint when buffing it to shine, you dont have to worry about orange peel in the base coat, etc. thus labor costs are reduced substantially.
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Old 06-03-2010, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Michigan--good on the rocks
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Lacquer is porous. Moisture gets through even when the paint is intact. It requires significantly more maintenance to keep it looking even decent. The average Joe driver will never have to do anything to his urethane clear-coat paint, and it will last for years longer than lacquer. Without regular maintenence, lacquer will not last. And for that show-car shine, you are not putting on 2-3 coats, you are putting on 6-10 coats, and rubbing 3-4 of them back off. Then before long, you would have to rub it again. Regular waxing could slow down the process, but nothing would stop it. Lacquer was a PITA, it was only used because there was nothing better. Urethane base-clear is more difficult to apply if you want show quality, but infinitely easier to maintain, and much longer lasting.

Quote:
However, if the clearcoat becomes compromised, the only alternative is a full-repaint.
You can blend clear coat in a repair. It isn't the best way to do it, but it wasn't the best way with lacquer, either. Spotted-in repairs will show over time.
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Old 06-03-2010, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Pikesville, MD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosecitywanderer View Post
As far as I know, the Volvo 240 was the last production car to use single stage paint up until production ended in 1993. People often cite the EPA as the reason for clearcoat paint becoming the norm but the answer is much simpler than that. When painting with single-stage (lacquer) paint, it requires two or three coats to get an even, durable coat that will last for years. Compare this to a clear-coated car which can look good with just a single color coat and a single layer of clear which is just paint without any pigment.
This is factually incorrect. Single stage paint IS non clearcoated, but you can get single stage paint in laquer (well, you could) or enamels (be they syntetic enamel, acrylic enamel, or urethane enamel). You could also get clearcoat paint in laquers back in the day (candy and pearlescent custom paints were usually laquers with the laquer clear as the carrier for the pearls and then the last stage of paint). Dual stage or two stage paint is simply a basecoat with a celarcoat, and can be solid or metallic. Three stage paint is reserved for candies and pearls, where there is a base color layer, a translucent color layer (or pearlescent layer) and then a final clear layer.

Clear paint is simply paint with no pigment, be it a laquer clear in the old days, or an enamel clear now (and usually a higyh solids urethane).

Clearcoats came about due to the desire for depth in the color, primarily in metallic colors, and for UV protection in said colors. Non clearcoated metallic colrs can get dull and if you try to poolish them up to get shine back, you will rub the pignemt off the metallic particles which will actually make the paint even duller. Clearcoat gives depth and protection to those metallic particles, along with UV protection to keep the color from fading as fast.

Laquers went away due to the high VOC content and rather dangerous chemicals involved. Laquers cure by evaporation of the solvent carriers, which releases dangerous toxins like toluene into the air. Non catalyzed enamels also dry by solvent evaporation, though the toxins are less. But the trend went to catalyzed urethanes which cure by crosslinking the polymers in the paint, giving a much more durable finish as well as NOT releasing solvents into the atmosphere. Modern automotive paints, at least in factories, are also primarily waterborne, rather than solvent-borne, with even lower VOC content when sprayed. Unfortunately, waterborne paints suffer from adhesion problems as there are no solvents to bind them properly to the substrates (generally electrostatically applied epoxy primer) this causes most of the paint delmination problems you see on so many newer cars.
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Old 06-03-2010, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Pikesville, MD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanman13 View Post
Urethane base-clear is more difficult to apply if you want show quality, but infinitely easier to maintain, and much longer lasting.
Actually, I've found spraying base/clear is MUCH easier than laying down laquer for show cars, much less labor intensive, but still just as easy to make even with metallics, candies, or pearlescents. And there's actually a vastly wider choice of finishes you can acheve with modern paints.

What's harder is geting an HVLP spray gun to deliver a fine nough mist to make a candy or pearl job be even without mottling, especially where you are fading from one color to another...
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Old 06-03-2010, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Michigan--good on the rocks
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I agree about the HVLP guns. The most beautiful jobs I have laid have been with old style siphon feed guns, no matter the type of paint. I still like my old DeVilbiss.
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Old 06-03-2010, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Pikesville, MD
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Yeah, I still have one, as well. But I've taken my SataJet HVLP gravity feed and cranked up the pressure a bit and can finally get it to mist properly at partial trigger settings. oversray is still reduced a bit vs a conventional gun, but it's way worse than a normal HVLP. Small price to pay to get even custom paint, though.
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Old 06-03-2010, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Michigan--good on the rocks
2,544 posts, read 4,281,526 times
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You can get some improvement by going with a smaller tip, as well. But this is a bit off-topic.
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Old 06-03-2010, 09:26 PM
 
Location: Earth
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So for the most part were lacquer a single stage paint? Or did they have a clear coat that went over them?

I recently met up with a guy that my dad painted his car 32 years ago....he still has the car and it's been garaged pretty much the whole time...but the lacquer is checked up. He said it was normal.
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