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Philly's international arrivals/departures are very obviously skewed due to the proximity of NY and DC airports. I don't think the numbers above are indicative of Philly not having much of an international cache. Even Many in Boston (inc myself) will head to JFK for flights if the price and time make sense.
But see the breakout just to London and Paris on next page. You would think it would be higher for London in Philly and there would be a number > 100K for Paris. DC, Boston, and Miami only have numbers for London/Paris and they are quite high for each, whereas Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, and Philly have only numbers for London, and in Philly's case, there is a low O&D for London. The driving distance from Philly to Newark is 86 miles. That's 86 miles through NJ, barring any traffic, that's well over an hour, easily 2 with traffic. <1 on the Acela, but then there are transfers, etc. Business travelers aren't putting up with that to fly to London. Maybe some families would, but Philly's airport is one of the more convenient ones relative to its metro/city (7 miles from CC and connected by commuter rail).
I think it's pretty clear there just isn't that much international traffic originating out of Philadelphia. For international tourism it is in the same league as Atlanta/Dallas/Houston, and the O&D numbers point to that. I think it's pretty clear that despite growth markets (which are everywhere), there still aren't big or even normal sized Asian numbers for Miami, or most of the E Coast.
You can look at these O&D numbers that Montclair just picked out (the 4 big cities in Europe/Asia) and discern demographics of the metros and general international travel. It makes sense that SF and New York lead the Hong Kong numbers. Cantonese people largely live between these two cities, these two cities have the largest Chinatowns. It still makes sense that SF has > numbers for Paris/London than Chicago despite being on the W Coast and being smaller because SF has far greater international tourism and the UK is the #1 origination for tourism in SF, if I recall.
Look at the London figures for Orlando. Huge. And no Paris. There is already Disney in Paris - goes to show those Brits want the original anyway.
Also another update, Vancouver recently got the A380 too.
Chicago is another North American city that is about to get it:
Mexico City, another major North American city, also has A380 to service the first of its destinations (recent development):
So now the list of North American cities should include (these already have it): New York, Los Angeles, Miami, Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex, Houston, San Francisco Bay Area, Toronto, Vancouver, Atlanta, Mexico City, and Washington DC.
Both Chicago and Boston are affirmed to get A380s in the near future. Seattle and Montreal remain hot on the radar of airlines that want to add A380s to each city's premier airport.
Basically with the additions of Boston, Chicago, Montreal, (and hopefully) Seattle all the major population centers of North America will be serviced by A380s soon. That is in addition to the already existing service in New York, Los Angeles, Miami, Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex, Houston, San Francisco Bay Area, Toronto, Vancouver, Atlanta, Mexico City, and Washington DC.
Interesting. But there's still a couple population centers left out like Philly, Detroit, and Phoenix.
But see the breakout just to London and Paris on next page. You would think it would be higher for London in Philly and there would be a number > 100K for Paris. DC, Boston, and Miami only have numbers for London/Paris and they are quite high for each, whereas Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, and Philly have only numbers for London, and in Philly's case, there is a low O&D for London. The driving distance from Philly to Newark is 86 miles. That's 86 miles through NJ, barring any traffic, that's well over an hour, easily 2 with traffic. <1 on the Acela, but then there are transfers, etc. Business travelers aren't putting up with that to fly to London. Maybe some families would, but Philly's airport is one of the more convenient ones relative to its metro/city (7 miles from CC and connected by commuter rail).
I think it's pretty clear there just isn't that much international traffic originating out of Philadelphia. For international tourism it is in the same league as Atlanta/Dallas/Houston, and the O&D numbers point to that. I think it's pretty clear that despite growth markets (which are everywhere), there still aren't big or even normal sized Asian numbers for Miami, or most of the E Coast.
You can look at these O&D numbers that Montclair just picked out (the 4 big cities in Europe/Asia) and discern demographics of the metros and general international travel. It makes sense that SF and New York lead the Hong Kong numbers. Cantonese people largely live between these two cities, these two cities have the largest Chinatowns. It still makes sense that SF has > numbers for Paris/London than Chicago despite being on the W Coast and being smaller because SF has far greater international tourism and the UK is the #1 origination for tourism in SF, if I recall.
Look at the London figures for Orlando. Huge. And no Paris. There is already Disney in Paris - goes to show those Brits want the original anyway.
actually depending on where you live in the Philly area that is not true; its hard to quatify but there is a ton of Int'l traffic that goes through NYC airports from Philly. I think the numbers are skewed. Also remember for business travel car service is covered many times as well. Bucks county to EWR is like 70 minutes while PHL is 50 minutes. Traffic on the NJ Turnpike almost always moves - the bottlenecks are almost solely limited to holiday weekends. Average speed is probably around 75/80 as someone who is on it a few times a wekk and at rush hour. NYC has such a large scale and direct flights it many times is preffered.
Even from say points west along the PA turnpike the car travel time i not that much longer to EWR as opposed to the Schuylkill expressway which can god awful
I was in LA last week and it took me longer to get from LAX to Anaheim Hills than it does for me from CC Philly to EWR (albeit slightly longer in miles)
for asian flights everyone I deal with goes through NYC airports as its not that bad and my company pays the car service and buiness class on the directs to boot.
I wish there were more directs Internationally from PHL but NYC airports are a very viable option
Just googled Newtown PA to EWR and is 1 hr 11 minutes door to door (PHL is showing 49 minutes)
Marlton NJ (You can the Philly skyline from there well) is 1 hr 10 minutes (PHL showing 32 minutes)
My Zip just outside CC is 1 hr 16 minutes right now (PHL is significantly closer at 28 minutes) but as you would know BART to DT SF/SFO can be 40+ minutes actually not tremedously quicker than the current drie time to EWR (JFK is not as easy to get to but has the most options and constant van and car service) Drive down the NJ Turnpike sometime and look at all the van services heading back and forth. Philly could be better but doe have good Europe service but is cheaper than the NYC options generally. I recently took Alitalia as opposed to US Air (now AA) from PHL as the cot was significantly better to Rome direct.
I think you are overplaying the distance and cost/benefit given all the direct options
Heck I know people that will drive to BWI for cheap SW rates which is like 80-90 minutes
alo the commuter rail connection while there sucks, runs only every 30 minutes and can take well over an hour for me. I either drive or cab/uber to the airport sadly
I too grew up flying out of Newark and not PHL. Philly airport is already past capacity and is responsible for up to 8% of all delays in this country due to congestion issues. Which is why it is under a 12 year, $7B renovation.. Also the A380 is a failure. Airbus hasn't had an order for one of them all year as of Oct. 30th. Their newer more lightweight efficient A350 model and Boeing's 787 are killing the A380 and its four engines.
Last edited by thedirtypirate; 11-15-2015 at 12:09 PM..
actually depending on where you live in the Philly area that is not true; its hard to quatify but there is a ton of Int'l traffic that goes through NYC airports from Philly. I think the numbers are skewed. Also remember for business travel car service is covered many times as well. Bucks county to EWR is like 70 minutes while PHL is 50 minutes. Traffic on the NJ Turnpike almost always moves - the bottlenecks are almost solely limited to holiday weekends. Average speed is probably around 75/80 as someone who is on it a few times a wekk and at rush hour. NYC has such a large scale and direct flights it many times is preffered.
Even from say points west along the PA turnpike the car travel time i not that much longer to EWR as opposed to the Schuylkill expressway which can god awful
I was in LA last week and it took me longer to get from LAX to Anaheim Hills than it does for me from CC Philly to EWR (albeit slightly longer in miles)
for asian flights everyone I deal with goes through NYC airports as its not that bad and my company pays the car service and buiness class on the directs to boot.
I wish there were more directs Internationally from PHL but NYC airports are a very viable option
Just googled Newtown PA to EWR and is 1 hr 11 minutes door to door (PHL is showing 49 minutes)
Marlton NJ (You can the Philly skyline from there well) is 1 hr 10 minutes (PHL showing 32 minutes)
My Zip just outside CC is 1 hr 16 minutes right now (PHL is significantly closer at 28 minutes) but as you would know BART to DT SF/SFO can be 40+ minutes actually not tremedously quicker than the current drie time to EWR (JFK is not as easy to get to but has the most options and constant van and car service) Drive down the NJ Turnpike sometime and look at all the van services heading back and forth. Philly could be better but doe have good Europe service but is cheaper than the NYC options generally. I recently took Alitalia as opposed to US Air (now AA) from PHL as the cot was significantly better to Rome direct.
I think you are overplaying the distance and cost/benefit given all the direct options
Heck I know people that will drive to BWI for cheap SW rates which is like 80-90 minutes
alo the commuter rail connection while there sucks, runs only every 30 minutes and can take well over an hour for me. I either drive or cab/uber to the airport sadly
Sorry but I'm calling BS on the highlighted, just a quick search on Google maps disproves this, by both mileage and time.
Sorry but I'm calling BS on the highlighted, just a quick search on Google maps disproves this, by both mileage and time.
well the hour spent on the 405 was real but probably could have found a faster route, probably should have gone out to 91 or 90 or wahtever that route that parallels the 5 towards the IE
its absolutely closer mileage wize my point is on the time it took; not saying always does but also CC to EWR is much faster than people seem to think
well the hour spent on the 405 was real but probably could have found a faster route, probably should have gone out to 91 or 90 or wahtever that route that parallels the 5 towards the IE
its absolutely closer mileage wize my point is on the time it took; not saying always does but also CC to EWR is much faster than people seem to think
Well google maps says otherwise for both time and mileage, literally a 40 mile difference and 40 minutes longer as well.
and right now on a Sunday LAX to Anaheim hills is 59 minutes (basically no traffic)
EWR to 19147 is 1 hr 14 minutes and that is sort of the point its not as far people might think
for additional perspective Berkely to SFO is 48 mins right now - the differenc is 26 minutes from long to short on these, again my point is NYC airports, esp EWR is not a far as people are suggesting here
heck look at riverside to LAX right now is a longer drive time than CC Philly to EWR at 1 hr 17 minutes
just looked at thousand oaks as I do that ofetn to Amgen and shows 50 minutes right now which I can confidently say is quicker than I have made it with the excpetion of catching 6AM flight from LAX; generally it closer 1:15 or so even with backj roads to avoid the 405 and 101 via Malibu and Malibu canyon rd etc.
I am not sayinf its closer what I am saying is it not as far (especially travel time wise) as people are suggesting. Getting a flight from EWR is much easeier thn mot realize here and because of thi it does factor for Int'l options
and right now on a Sunday LAX to Anaheim hills is 59 minutes (basically no traffic)
EWR to 19147 is 1 hr 14 minutes and that is sort of the point its not as far people might think
for additional perspective Berkely to SFO is 48 mins right now - the differenc is 26 minutes from long to short on these, again my point is NYC airports, esp EWR is not a far as people are suggesting here
heck look at riverside to LAX right now is a longer drive time than CC Philly to EWR at 1 hr 17 minutes
just looked at thousand oaks as I do that ofetn to Amgen and shows 50 minutes right now which I can confidently say is quicker than I have made it with the excpetion of catching 6AM flight from LAX; generally it closer 1:15 or so even with backj roads to avoid the 405 and 101 via Malibu and Malibu canyon rd etc.
I am not sayinf its closer what I am saying is it not as far (especially travel time wise) as people are suggesting. Getting a flight from EWR is much easeier thn mot realize here and because of thi it does factor for Int'l options
Sorry kidphilly you said EWR-CC was quicker than LAX-Anaheim hills, that's clearly not the case by any measure with the exception of getting caught in an accident traffic jam, no need to try to move goal posts all of a sudden.
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