Blue Shield Of California instituting furloughs due to ObamaCare costs (rich, health care)

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Hippityhop

So why are the top physicians in the world all in America?

Are they? Do you know that for a fact? We certainly have the richest doctors in the world, but I'm not sure there is any rational way to ascertain if they are the best. Last doc I saw was playing candycrush or something on his tablet while I was talking to him, he didn't hear a word I said..now there's a fine doctor for you!

Originally Posted by Hippityhop

Why do Canadians come to America to have procedures done?

Very few of them come to the US for healthcare. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-medical-care/

[Hippityhop]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Are they? Do you know that for a fact? We certainly have the richest doctors in the world, but I'm not sure there is any rational way to ascertain if they are the best. Last doc I saw was playing candycrush or something on his tablet while I was talking to him, he didn't hear a word I said..now there's a fine doctor for you!

Cool. Thank you for your anecdote about 1 of 854,698 active U.S. MD's.

https://www.statista.com/topics/1244/physicians/

Our 7 countries that produce the best doctors in the world list has come to an end with truly the greatest source of exceptional minds in the field of medicine. American doctors made the most lifesaving discoveries and groundbreaking treatments than any other country in the world. Alfred Blalock changed the fate of cardiovascular science forever; Clarence Walton Lillehei pioneered the open heart surgery, and Ben Carson was the first neurosurgeon to have successfully separated conjoined twins joined at the head. Other notable doctors that have catapulted U.S.A on top of our list are: George Richards Minot, Andrew Taylor Still, Charles Best and Charles R. Drew.

7 Countries that Produce the Best Doctors in the World - Insider Monkey


And the United States, with its high salaries and technological innovation, is also the world’s most powerful magnet for doctors, attracting more every year than Britain, Canada and Australia — the next most popular destinations for migrating doctors — combined.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/11/ma...n-doctors.html

Guess why we have the best MD's? Because they get paid the most. SHOCKING.

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Very few of them come to the US for healthcare. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-medical-care/

Very Few. OK. 52,000 and INCREASING per year in your Wash Post article. Now why would that happen if Canadia Healthcare is so good and it's all "free"? Just think about that.
The Fraser Institute, a Canadian public policy think tank, estimates that 52,513 Canadians received non-emergency medical treatment in the U.S.

Canadians Increasingly Come to U.S. For Health Care | Best Countries | US News

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/site...-care-2015.pdf

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Hippityhop

Cool. Thank you for your anecdote about 1 of 854,698 active U.S. MD's.
https://www.statista.com/topics/1244/physicians/
Our 7 countries that produce the best doctors in the world list has come to an end with truly the greatest source of exceptional minds in the field of medicine. American doctors made the most lifesaving discoveries and groundbreaking treatments than any other country in the world. Alfred Blalock changed the fate of cardiovascular science forever; Clarence Walton Lillehei pioneered the open heart surgery, and Ben Carson was the first neurosurgeon to have successfully separated conjoined twins joined at the head. Other notable doctors that have catapulted U.S.A on top of our list are: George Richards Minot, Andrew Taylor Still, Charles Best and Charles R. Drew.
7 Countries that Produce the Best Doctors in the World - Insider Monkey
Very Few. OK. 52,000 and INCREASING per year in your Wash Post article. Now why would that happen if Canadia Healthcare is so good and it's all "free"? Just think about that.
The Fraser Institute, a Canadian public policy think tank, estimates that 52,513 Canadians received non-emergency medical treatment in the U.S.

Canadians Increasingly Come to U.S. For Health Care | Best Countries | US News
https://www.fraserinstitute.org/site...-care-2015.pdf

1) 52,000 people Canadians went "abroad" for healthcare: There is no data showing that they all went to the US, for all we know half of them went to Turkey for hair transplants just as thousands of men in the US do.

2) You posted a link with the number of doctors in the US, does more mean best now? How does that support your claim?

3) I read the third link and it is just silly i.e. "Greece has great doctors because of Hippocrates"

You named several great doctors, that does not mean that we have the best doctors in the world which is an impossible claim to support because there is no objective way to even measure 'greatness' is there?

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

If you eliminate medicare and replace it with private health insurance policies with 'premium support' and kill the ACA and expanded medicaid along with it, then you are rationing health care because it will effectively deny health care to many of the elderly and low wage workers. At least in countries with single payer they admit to 'rationing' and are quite transparent about how it works, you might have to wait for a knee replacement but we will take care of you right now if you get cancer or a heart attack, seems a bit kinder than what Paul Ryan has in mind.

I do not agree with Paul Ryan. Why not a system that provides comparable health care to what we have and is single payer and ... all politicians must be on it and no other plan.


They would make it very good, which they don't now because they get premium plans at our expense.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by expatCA

I do not agree with Paul Ryan. Why not a system that provides comparable health care to what we have and is single payer and ... all politicians must be on it and no other plan.
They would make it very good, which they don't now because they get premium plans at our expense.

I completely agree.

[Hippityhop]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

1) 52,000 people Canadians went "abroad" for healthcare: There is no data showing that they all went to the US, for all we know half of them went to Turkey for hair transplants just as thousands of men in the US do.

2) You posted a link with the number of doctors in the US, does more mean best now? How does that support your claim?

3) I read the third link and it is just silly i.e. "Greece has great doctors because of Hippocrates"

You named several great doctors, that does not mean that we have the best doctors in the world which is an impossible claim to support because there is no objective way to even measure 'greatness' is there?

1) Believe what you want about where they go. If you want to bury your head in the sand that's not my problem.

2) I posted a link to show you how many physicians there are in the United States. You remember that sentence I was talking about how your story about 1 physician playing candy crush out of 800k+ is anecdotal? It's about substantiating my claim. Please, try and keep up.

3) Yawn. Yep the list is completely irrelevant because of the #7 ranking is "silly". Now you think I named several doctors. Are you dense? I'm quoting the article, I didn't say anything at all.

You also completely ignored the article from the NY Times.


Also, since you actually seem to think I'm wrong (which is just hilarious because you clearly know absolutely nothing about the healthcare industry), I'm going to give you some more reading material.

Have at it.

World | Ranking Web of Hospitals
17 of the top 20 are in the US.

Hospitals and Surgery in the United States | Patients Beyond Borders
The US also offers a confidence factor: top US medical institutions remain the envy of the world, with unmatched high standards and rigor. Similarly, US physicians are subject to the most arduous system of ethical and legal accountability in the world.

Each year, some 800,000 international patients visit the United States seeking excellence in specialty care—especially in complex or "high-acuity" cases.


An estimated 40% of all medical travelers are looking for the world’s most advanced technologies, worrying little about the proximity of the destination or cost, according to consulting firm McKinsey & Co. It narrowly defined medical travelers as only those whose primary and explicit purpose in traveling was to obtain in-patient medical treatment in a foreign country

Most of those patients in search of the best care, including 38% from Latin America, 35% from the Middle East, 16% from Europe and 7% from Canada, are heading to the United States.
Forbes Welcome


For advanced care, the US has the best providers, technology, and facilities in the world. If you choose to not believe this and wallow in ignorance, I don't care. Good day, I'm done with this thread.

[CA4Now]

"To reduce potential chaos, congressional Republicans have been discussing a multi-step, multi-year process for repealing and replacing the health law.

They would vote early next year on legislation that would scrap large parts of the law, including the unpopular insurance mandate and funding for insurance subsidies and for Medicaid expansions that 31 states have enacted.

That legislation would delay the effective date of the repeal for a year or two, however, giving Republicans time to develop an alternative."
Rolling out Obamacare was chaotic, but a repeal could be much worse - LA Times

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

"To reduce potential chaos, congressional Republicans have been discussing a multi-step, multi-year process for repealing and replacing the health law.

They would vote early next year on legislation that would scrap large parts of the law, including the unpopular insurance mandate and funding for insurance subsidies and for Medicaid expansions that 31 states have enacted.

That legislation would delay the effective date of the repeal for a year or two, however, giving Republicans time to develop an alternative."
Rolling out Obamacare was chaotic, but a repeal could be much worse - LA Times

End subsidies and they won't have to worry about killing the ACA, it will die on it's own. But have they given any thought about what will happen to the people receiving subsidies, how will they receive healthcare? And if you get rid of expanded medicaid you merely shift the cost of caring for those people back to hospital ER's that is unless they also plan on repealing EMTALA.

[blam]

Originally Posted by Hippityhop

So why are the top physicians in the world all in America? Why do Canadians come to America to have procedures done?

Originally Posted by Hippityhop

1)
Each year, some 800,000 international patients visit the United States seeking excellence in specialty care—especially in complex or "high-acuity" cases.

European countries that cannot provide the necessary high tech equipment will pay for their citizens to have the surgery elsewhere. Even poor countries such as Poland will pay for surgery that will take place in USA if needed. I know this because I'm polish. I can only imagine this works even better in western Europe. That is probably a very good chunk of your 800k number there. The rest is extremely rich people who don't care to pay millions of dollars on whatever they want to get done.

But you need to ask yourself. Is it better to have healthcare that is the best in separating conjoined twins from Denmark or is it better to have healthcare that is the best in treating everyday problems of American citizens without making them go bankrupt in the process?

And also did you ever research how many Americans travel abroad to have surgery because they don't happen to be in the top 1% of income earners? I bet you its way more than 800k.

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

have they given any thought about what will happen to the people receiving subsidies, how will they receive healthcare? And if you get rid of expanded medicaid you merely shift the cost of caring for those people back to hospital ER's

Yes, and we're back where we were before the ACA: the uninsured having to use the ER, and the insured paying for the increased costs.