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I'm so sorry that you're going through this. Elder care is very difficult because often our parents act like children and do need us to care for them, but we don't have the power to force them to do anything. It can be frustrating beyond belief.
I'm wondering if your mother has always acted like this--lying, avoiding responsibility and making bad decisions--or if it's something that has occurred over the last several years.
My mother got spottier and spottier about paying bills until I finally took over. It really was a function of dementia--she just couldn't carry through with what she needed to do. But she had always been very passive so she didn't fight me when I took things over. If an older person can't take care of her business but also won't let you take care of her business, it would be maddening.
My first thought on reading your post is that your mother is trying to be responsible for her finances, but lacks the capacity at this point to follow through. I suggest that if you and your siblings don't fight about things, that you talk to them and come up with a plan for what you think your mother should do. Then try to present a united front and have a sit-down and basically tell her what she needs to do and why. Lay it on the line for her. "If you don't sell your house, you're going to run out of money to take care of Dad in 2 years" or whatever. Then offer to get a POA if you don't already have one and start doing the things that need to be done. Treat her kindly, firmly and with humor, but don't leave it up to her to decide.
I know all of this is much easier said than done. Everyone I know who has dealt with these issues gets angry and vows to let it all go at some point. But sitting back will most likely prove equally difficult for you.
Good luck feel free to vent at any time!
Yes, she has always been like this to some degree. She has Narcissistic Personality Disorder due to extreme childhood abuse. She needs to be a victim to avoid responsibility, to the point that she will create a villain where none exists. I guess it's my turn.
I do have her PoA, but to do anything without her full blessing would be madness, and since I won't get her full blessing........like I said, she asked for my help with the mess, but immediately started challenging me before I could even assess what had truly happened. When I suggested plan B, she refused to listen to it and insisted it was no better. She asked for help, but now won't admit that anything is wrong.
There is no sitting down with the brothers...one refuses to participate, the other is pushier than I and makes her really mad.
I am essentially calling her bluff. Eventually she will make some sort of gesture towards reconciliation by asking for my help with something minor and see how I respond OR she will just pretend it never happened. She will never admit to the lies, nor will she ever apologize. Nor will she change her methods.
I'm not really sure what it would take for me to step back in and handle this. Carte Blanche? I do have PoA.
Last edited by Stagemomma; 04-21-2015 at 08:12 PM..
Thanks so much to you all for your supportive comments! I felt awful all day and was anxious to hear from my brother who will bear the brunt of my defection if he isn't careful. I have been trying to get him to set some boundaries as well, with no luck. He turned out to be supportive.
If she were to ask me what it would take to restore my trust, which she will not do in a million years, I would say: Get a full cognitive work up by a neurologist, and bring a copy of the report, signed by your psychiatrist, to me. She won't do that in a million years either, because then she would have to admit to her own cognitive impairment, and admit it to her psychiatrist (whom she lies to constantly) and explain to him why I have asked for this.
She already lied to my brother and told him she had a cognitive workup and passed with flying colors.
Thanks so much to you all for your supportive comments! I felt awful all day and was anxious to hear from my brother who will bear the brunt of my defection if he isn't careful. I have been trying to get him to set some boundaries as well, with no luck. He turned out to be supportive.
If she were to ask me what it would take to restore my trust, which she will not do in a million years, I would say: Get a full cognitive work up by a neurologist, and bring a copy of the report, signed by your psychiatrist, to me. She won't do that in a million years either, because then she would have to admit to her own cognitive impairment, and admit it to her psychiatrist (whom she lies to constantly) and explain to him why I have asked for this.
She already lied to my brother and told him she had a cognitive workup and passed with flying colors.
We are with you in spirit, Stagemomma!
My Mom told each sibling a different story and brought us all into conflict. It was not out of evil but probably out of apathy and boredom.
My Mom would not admit to incompetence, no way. So you need a backdoor plan. For you it is the care of your Dad. This has the added benefit of keeping your drive pure to both to yourself and outsiders. For me it was my handicapped brother and the memory of my Dad.
Explore that avenue. And consider co-trustee ship with her and joint POA with say an Aunt. The added layers may be enough to convince her that she need not surrender control per se but those aspects where you can help. And as you are bound by a fiduciary responsibility to the trustees and the beneficiaries, your Mom and brother can perhaps see the light.
Just friendly message board support. See a licensed pro in your state for concrete advice.
Update: Two months later, Mom has finally started asking us for some help getting her home in order. My brother suggested a family meeting. mom glommed onto that idea and is using that in an attempt to get us all to come home. (he was thinking we could Skype) Her idea of a family meeting is a picnic in the back yard. Apparently we will be helping around the house as well. (Normally she is very vague about what needs to be done, or won't let me do what I see needs doing, so nothing gets done, then she sighs a lot and says "We didn't get to do any of the things on my (nonexistent) list while you were here.") While I doubt any business will get done, I carved out some time to take my kids up there for a few days this week. We are leaving July 1 and coming home on the 4th. I refuse to spend July 5 in gridlock around DC.
Mom is so happy she has manipulated us all into coming to visit and I doubt anything of substance will get done. Then, she said while I was there I needed to sign the papers for her new bank account and I just flat out told her I did not want to do that. "I need someone to be able to write checks if I am in the hospital!" "Mom, I have your PoA, I don't need to be on your account to do that"
Tried to discuss finances with my brother but he is 'overwhelmed' and said he'd think about it later. My instinct is to hold firm...I don't want to enable her bad plan by signing off on it. My original plan for her finances was sound and I can't find any ways to improve it. The advice she got from her broker did not include the full picture. Yet I feel like a recalcitrant child refusing to do things her way.
I'm struggling to figure out how i'm going to get through the next few days without being a total monster.
Update: Two months later, Mom has finally started asking us for some help getting her home in order. My brother suggested a family meeting. mom glommed onto that idea and is using that in an attempt to get us all to come home. (he was thinking we could Skype) Her idea of a family meeting is a picnic in the back yard. Apparently we will be helping around the house as well. (Normally she is very vague about what needs to be done, or won't let me do what I see needs doing, so nothing gets done, then she sighs a lot and says "We didn't get to do any of the things on my (nonexistent) list while you were here.") While I doubt any business will get done, I carved out some time to take my kids up there for a few days this week. We are leaving July 1 and coming home on the 4th. I refuse to spend July 5 in gridlock around DC.
Mom is so happy she has manipulated us all into coming to visit and I doubt anything of substance will get done. Then, she said while I was there I needed to sign the papers for her new bank account and I just flat out told her I did not want to do that. "I need someone to be able to write checks if I am in the hospital!" "Mom, I have your PoA, I don't need to be on your account to do that"
Tried to discuss finances with my brother but he is 'overwhelmed' and said he'd think about it later. My instinct is to hold firm...I don't want to enable her bad plan by signing off on it. My original plan for her finances was sound and I can't find any ways to improve it. The advice she got from her broker did not include the full picture. Yet I feel like a recalcitrant child refusing to do things her way.
I'm struggling to figure out how i'm going to get through the next few days without being a total monster.
I feel for you. Yes, she has manipulated everyone but at least you have marked the big family get together off the calendar for a while and hopefully, you can also do some other things around DC w/ the kids while there.
Is there anyway to actually get a list of what needs to be done? As in, get her to write it down or verbally tell you so you can write it down? I am thinking it is unlikely, lol.
Do not cave in w/ the checking account. Stand firm and keep repeating the same things no matter how many times you have to say it. Easier said than done, I am sure.
Be careful traveling . . . I hope things go well (or at least - not badly!)
Update: Two months later, Mom has finally started asking us for some help getting her home in order. My brother suggested a family meeting. mom glommed onto that idea and is using that in an attempt to get us all to come home. (he was thinking we could Skype) Her idea of a family meeting is a picnic in the back yard. Apparently we will be helping around the house as well. (Normally she is very vague about what needs to be done, or won't let me do what I see needs doing, so nothing gets done, then she sighs a lot and says "We didn't get to do any of the things on my (nonexistent) list while you were here.") While I doubt any business will get done, I carved out some time to take my kids up there for a few days this week. We are leaving July 1 and coming home on the 4th. I refuse to spend July 5 in gridlock around DC.
Mom is so happy she has manipulated us all into coming to visit and I doubt anything of substance will get done. Then, she said while I was there I needed to sign the papers for her new bank account and I just flat out told her I did not want to do that. "I need someone to be able to write checks if I am in the hospital!" "Mom, I have your PoA, I don't need to be on your account to do that"
Tried to discuss finances with my brother but he is 'overwhelmed' and said he'd think about it later. My instinct is to hold firm...I don't want to enable her bad plan by signing off on it. My original plan for her finances was sound and I can't find any ways to improve it. The advice she got from her broker did not include the full picture. Yet I feel like a recalcitrant child refusing to do things her way.
I'm struggling to figure out how i'm going to get through the next few days without being a total monster.
Actually - to be honest, its far easier to deal with a bank by being on a joint account, than trying to do it through POA.
Banks reserve the right to look at your POA, and if it doesn't meet their standards, they can basically refuse to recognize it.
Initially, I was POA for my parents, and when my mother needed assitance, I had to go round the mulberry bush with the bank - presenting the documents, getting them evaluated by their legal staff, etc..
Also, every time you call, you have to say "I'm POA for So and so, account #" and then they have to look for the note in the file giving you access..
When my parents moved and we set up new bank accounts, we just went joint on everything. I still have the POA, but its a pain to use, and for something as simple as routine banking I don't want to have to undertake it.
Good luck on the family meeting -- I hope some good comes of it.
POA will alow her to raise funds if that's needed. If the funds in the checking account will always be sufficient, then that's no issue. She may need to transfer funds from another account, redeem a mutual fund, or sell a car, all of which can be done with a durable power of attorney.
If you don't want to be on the account that's fine....BUT I second Briolat's comments -- ...It's easier if you're on the account....You don't have to DO anything with the account...your mom can't MAKE you. But IF you need to access funds --- or quite frankly just get something done quickly, without a hassle, and having to go through the same $#!% all the time....it's better to just be on the account.
Putting you back on the account has nothing to do with you getting back involved with being your mom's financial advisor.
Heck, yes, go for the joint checking acct if siblings trust you with Ma's money. Unless the bank has already accepted (aka approved) the POA, you won't know until the SHTF whether the bank will accept it when you really need access to the funds. Banks are notorious for refusing to honor POAs.
Last edited by lenora; 06-29-2015 at 12:01 PM..
Reason: clarity
POA will alow her to raise funds if that's needed. If the funds in the checking account will always be sufficient, then that's no issue. She may need to transfer funds from another account, redeem a mutual fund, or sell a car, all of which can be done with a durable power of attorney.
True but she can have the POA AND be a signer or co owner on the banking accounts as well.
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