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"When the elder's judgement is clouded and they remain proud, family members have to choose if they will enable this or force a change. Choices at the juncture of great change are really hard. It might seem to the family that if the elder would just move into independent living or an ALF, everything would be easier for all. To the elder it seems as if his or her very life is ending, or that they are not valuable to anyone, and are being shunted aside. I imagine how upsetting it is. I know my mom was very upset."
Well said. No one wants to think they are no longer independent, no one wants to drastically change their lives. It does mark the end of life in their minds. Why not let them live with some illusion of being independent?
Many younger people live with the delusion that they are very competent when they aren't. Or they believe they are very attractive and personable when they clearly are not. So many people believe they are someday going to be wealthy without doing anything that would make that happen. Don't people brag about how smart they are and how successful they are when neither is true? How many people think they are great parents when it's obvious to everyone else they are awful at parenting and their kids are suffering? This delusion that old people have that they are still independent is rather benign compared other illusions people believe about themselves.
We made the decision to let my in-laws remain in their home even if that meant their lives might be shortened because of it. We knew that they didn't always make the best decisions, but it was what they wanted and they made that clear throughout their lives. We made that decision because they were so opposed to moving anywhere else. We honored their wishes.
Putting parents in a home of some sort to keep them 'safe' is not always the best decision. Who wants to be 'safe' but completely miserable? I suspect 'keeping them safe' is often an excuse but I understand people don't want to have to constantly worry about their parent's safety.
Every family makes their own decisions. We can only hope our children honor our wishes when we get old and cranky.
Hate to be blunt, but by the time you have to decide whether to give up life as you know it to move to a nursing home your attitudes may well change.
Spend some time in a nursing home. Then decide what living at home means.
As long as people can live at home, the better their life is. As long as it doesn't jeopardize their health and safety I applaud them.
OP, I hope that your MIL enjoys getting back home and lives a nice long life.
Yes, it's the jeopardizing health and safety part that worries everyone. Like, she has taken to not turning on lights and walking around in the dark. When I see her doing this I ask why she hasn't turned in the light. It's like she doesn't realize it is off. This is a fall risk, or at minimum a knock-your-leg-good-and-hard-on-the-furniture risk.
Or simply not hearing the phone ring when it is right next to her. She has a hearing aid and the ringer is loud. My husband and I have been out a couple of times and called to check on her, she hasn't answered so we rush home and find her completely fine. Her cell phone is never charged up when it needs to be either. It's hard when a parent is doing things that worry everyone.
Not intended to be mean spirited. It's just a thought. If she wants to live at home with tons of dependence on my BIL in order for that to happen, that is between the two of them. But I think it should be acknowledged that she is living at home with the help of her son, or that she would not be able to live in her own home without him rather than sort of boasting that she can live on her own. That's the point I'm making.
I understand what you are saying. It gets to be a very difficult problem when the house starts to become unsafe or not kept up because the elder(s) refuse to spend the necessary money but instead expect others to handle these issues. Also, help with appointments and other assistance is usually needed. The time and expense of upkeep and management by family members can really be underestimated.
If they are willing to pay for the help and upkeep, it can work well.
You misunderstood. By "independent" I mean no hired help of any kind (medical or non medical assistance etc). I'm not referring to what your inlaws did. My MIL is refusing to hire any helper when she returns home.
Then I would say that if the BIL withdraws his help or is unable for some reason to help any more, she will either be forced to do it all herself or hire someone who can and will for a price. It is one thing to say you refuse to pay for help if you think you have help (who is obligated for some reason TO help you) and another to say you don't 'need' help.
She can cut back perhaps on some things and conserve her strength so she can do them other times but if something absolutely must be done, and she cannot do it herself, then while it doesn't matter what the semantics are one uses to describe the situation or where/how she gets that help, she will have some level of 'dependency' on someone else.
We all NEED help once in a while at all stages of our lives - even when we are generally young and strong, though we also may purchase help then too simply for convenience.
Some are just more stubborn than others in admitting it. I am likely to be one of those .. well, I don't mind paying but I would never impose on relatives and I hate when 'friends' do it too - I would rather pay. I will probably also maintain my stubbornness to the end - and call myself 'independent' if I don't rely on family to help me stay where I want to be.
All that said, I do (I think) understand this lady's underlying sentiment and fears. None of us likes to admit when we have to become dependent on others and yes, often that happens insidiously so we don't really notice how far that slide has gone down.
We made the decision to let my in-laws remain in their home even if that meant their lives might be shortened because of it. We knew that they didn't always make the best decisions, but it was what they wanted and they made that clear throughout their lives. We made that decision because they were so opposed to moving anywhere else. We honored their wishes.
Putting parents in a home of some sort to keep them 'safe' is not always the best decision. Who wants to be 'safe' but completely miserable? I suspect 'keeping them safe' is often an excuse but I understand people don't want to have to constantly worry about their parent's safety.
Every family makes their own decisions. We can only hope our children honor our wishes when we get old and cranky.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wasel
Yes, it's the jeopardizing health and safety part that worries everyone. Like, she has taken to not turning on lights and walking around in the dark. When I see her doing this I ask why she hasn't turned in the light. It's like she doesn't realize it is off. This is a fall risk, or at minimum a knock-your-leg-good-and-hard-on-the-furniture risk.
Or simply not hearing the phone ring when it is right next to her. She has a hearing aid and the ringer is loud. My husband and I have been out a couple of times and called to check on her, she hasn't answered so we rush home and find her completely fine. Her cell phone is never charged up when it needs to be either. It's hard when a parent is doing things that worry everyone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shamrock4
I understand what you are saying. It gets to be a very difficult problem when the house starts to become unsafe or not kept up because the elder(s) refuse to spend the necessary money but instead expect others to handle these issues. Also, help with appointments and other assistance is usually needed. The time and expense of upkeep and management by family members can really be underestimated.
If they are willing to pay for the help and upkeep, it can work well.
Thank you for this thoughtful discussion! I feel that same as BrassTacksGal (quoted above) and have thought long and hard about this for my mother. Her situation is so not ideal (at home with a adult child who hasn't worked for years but lived off of her) but when her other children weigh her "care" now with being in Assisted Living, we are sure we know she prefers to be at home (she has dementia).
On the other hand, I know what Wasel is saying. When the parent's care is more than the adult children can/want to handle, it is a strain to keep the parent at home.
And I think Shamrock4 summed it up well: "If they are willing to pay for the help and upkeep, it can work well."
Yes, it's the jeopardizing health and safety part that worries everyone. Like, she has taken to not turning on lights and walking around in the dark. When I see her doing this I ask why she hasn't turned in the light. It's like she doesn't realize it is off. This is a fall risk, or at minimum a knock-your-leg-good-and-hard-on-the-furniture risk.
Or simply not hearing the phone ring when it is right next to her. She has a hearing aid and the ringer is loud. My husband and I have been out a couple of times and called to check on her, she hasn't answered so we rush home and find her completely fine. Her cell phone is never charged up when it needs to be either. It's hard when a parent is doing things that worry everyone.
Sorry, I don't see those things as reasons to make your MIL move. The exact same things could be happening in a home. Most people are still in charge of their own lights and phone. If she falls, she falls. Get her an emergency button to wear. You can only protect people from themselves so much.
Hate to be blunt, but by the time you have to decide whether to give up life as you know it to move to a nursing home your attitudes may well change.
Spend some time in a nursing home. Then decide what living at home means.
As long as people can live at home, the better their life is. As long as it doesn't jeopardize their health and safety I applaud them.
OP, I hope that your MIL enjoys getting back home and lives a nice long life.
Is this really true? How many cases are there of people prematurely going to nursing homes? People cling and claw to stay in their homes....regardless of their health or safety. Sometimes they are near on their deathbeds before their caregivers can finally convince them they can no longer be cared for at home....and then they die in a nursing home. It's the same as the old joke that you should avoid hospitals because so many people die there.
People think of nursing homes as being lonely - how isolated are people who can't leave their own home...who can't leave their own bed without help? Is it that much of an improvement to live at home with only the company of a paid caregiver? I really wonder sometimes. We don't all live a version of the Waltons with 3 generations living together!
I don't think people deluding themselves should be applauded. We all need to see ourselves relatively objectively so we can make good choices for ourselves.
Sorry, I don't see those things as reasons to make your MIL move. The exact same things could be happening in a home. Most people are still in charge of their own lights and phone. If she falls, she falls. Get her an emergency button to wear. You can only protect people from themselves so much.
No need for "sorry"....I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. And I certainly have no intention of making my MIL do anything -- not that I have that power anyway.
I brought this up as more of a general discussion that originated in some fears that came out from BIL when we discussed transitioning her back home. The general discussion being that she needs more help than she is willing to accept/pay because she PERCEIVES that she doesn't need assistance. She is not recognizing that family assistance IS assistance. And I'm sure other elderly people don't realize it either, because the assistance and care is done out of love.
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